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this is james randy and you're listening

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to the skeptic zone

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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from australia

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for science and reason

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptic's own podcast

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episode number 619

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for the 23rd of august 2020. richard

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saunders here with you from sydney

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australia

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where the winter winds have come

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it's quite cool outside crisp and cool

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sunny

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and there is lots of snow in the

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mountains to the west of sydney

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people are running up driving up doing

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whatever they can to enjoy

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a winter wonderland coming up on this

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week's show i speak to my old friend

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beth darlington from access paranormal

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beth is in the uk

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at the moment and she goes around well

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so-called haunted locations

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trying to find out what really is going

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bump in the night and i think you'll

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find

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that beth has a pretty good attitude to

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these investigations following that it's

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michelle bickersma from melbourne hello

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michelle down there

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in uh in the lockdown in melbourne and

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michelle will be looking at

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the anecdotal evidence fallacy

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i think this one comes up a lot and we

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hear this one a lot

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then we have the interesting case and a

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bit of history i must say

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now i hope you've listened to the

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skeptic zone radio adventure solar flare

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and if you scroll down to the bottom of

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the page at skepticzone.tv you can see a

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link

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and listen to solar flare we did this

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some years ago it was a lot of fun

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wow recently discovered

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future audio from nasa if i can put it

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that way

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it turns out there was an original solar

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flare

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the original one

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that was well it was sort of on its way

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to the moon

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we're going to discover more a little

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bit later on in the show

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then we have a roundup of some of the

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latest covet 19

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foolishness to be found in real life and

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on the

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interwebs and it's also a reminder that

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you still have some time to nominate

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someone or something some organization

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for the australian skeptics bent spoon

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award

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and to round off the show it's let's

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have a random rant

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with our reporter dr paulie who's very

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busy at the moment

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very busy being one of the organizers

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for the upcoming skepticon

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2020 the australian skeptics national

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convention

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and there will be a new promo in this

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week's show anyway dr paulie looks at

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the study

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about fighting covet 19 misinformation

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on social media and then she interviews

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professor

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tammy hoffman from the institute of

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evidence-based healthcare at

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bond university about critical thinking

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in schools now if you're a teacher or

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you know a teacher

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this should be a very interesting

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interview for you

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stay tuned at the end of the show

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for an announcement about our new

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reporter

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and if you listen carefully you'll

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actually hear

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our new reporter during the show at some

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stage

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but now it's time for me to run

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downstairs yes susan gerbic i will look

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carefully to make sure i don't trip over

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those skeptic zone cats

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and i think this week i might have a

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little cup of instant

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chicken soup something like that with a

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bit of toast

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while i did that i hope you enjoy the

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skeptic zone

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joining me now on the line all the way

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from london in the uk

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and believe it or not folks i kid you

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not we are actually doing this uh

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the uh the base hookup via the telephone

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line remember those it's

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beth darlington hello beth oh richard so

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good to speak with you

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yes it's been a long time since we've

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seen each other we had a wonderful

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day about oh two years back

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you and i in maynard went down to

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circular key here in sydney in the times

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before when you really could get around

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and uh you and i faced the camera and

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were very serious about

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psychic investigations and maynard

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walked by in a bedsheet

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it was so funny and he did such a great

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job it was

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we had such fun that morning he was

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moving around

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and the holes cut out from the sheets

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for his eyes it looked great it was such

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a great

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great day really good morning yeah and i

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think that sums up your attitude to a

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lot

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of these things now you are a paranormal

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investigator you go out to ghosty

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places um whenever you can and right now

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you're in the uk

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doing that what does that mean exactly

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what what do you do when you arrive and

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i know you'd i think it's fair to say

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you take it in the right spirits pun

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intended

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i think you have a really good time but

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what's your goal and how do you go about

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it

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mean a lot of events

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are very similar here to what they are

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in australia and also in the us as well

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but it's a really more um of an

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inquisitive sort of

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stance but obviously it's about actually

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investigating possible paranormal

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phenomena so it's more of the

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okay something's occurred let's let's

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look at it a more rational way i think

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they

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chris french uh is a big sort of pioneer

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of that he's also based here in the uk

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as well

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and it's really just looking at it from

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a more rational perspective okay

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something's

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before we even entertain the possibility

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of it being paranormal and i kind of

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really do take that angle

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i know a couple of my friends who our

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investigators think it's probably not

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the best

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maybe it's good to be a little bit more

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neutral with that

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sort of approach but i really do think

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it's best to approach it from a

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it's probably not paranormal but let's

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just have a look at it anyway

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um and then see what we can find

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absolutely and uh

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we had a wonderful time here when you

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did speak at skepticon 2018 here in

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sydney

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and you were on a panel with myself as

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the host and uh a

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group of skeptics from around the world

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and there you were

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uh sort of out uh the odd one out in

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a funny sort of way and i believe that

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your friends in the paranormal

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side of things weren't uh weren't really

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happy that you were there or they were

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worried for you or something like that

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that's that's exactly right i had a lot

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of uh concerned

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friends in the paranormal community that

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were um thinking i was very very brave

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to have

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got up on stage was obviously with such

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fantastic minds

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likes you know dr susan blackmore and i

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think um that's gary poppy that's

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exactly right lovely lovely people

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and you know they sort of were like well

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you know you you might need a

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bulletproof vest going up there and you

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know be careful they might you know

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really sort of

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hammer you down a bit but it obviously

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as you know i had the most amazing time

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very welcomed um it was such a great

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day a real eye-opener and um you know

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just great exchanging mind ideas

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thoughts theories

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and you know a lot of a really good

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healthy skepticism does look at the

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paranormal

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not as a you know this of course it's a

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pseudo science but it's not looked on up

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with such

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hate i guess you could say or distain

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it's just more of a bit of a cheeky joke

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on the side i guess you could say

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compared to more serious

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sort of issues like you know the

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anti-vaxxer movement or something like

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that so it's

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a very very different level of

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seriousness so i think with that it's a

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little more of a

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lighter sort of side of side of the

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world's topics to sit there and pick

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about so

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yeah it was a great time but yeah i have

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very concerned people originally

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that's one of the things i like about

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the skeptical movement we can be serious

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and we

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need to be serious from time to time and

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you put your finger on it right there

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with the anti-vaxxers in particular but

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we can have an awful lot of

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fun and interest and investigations and

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get out there and uh

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you know go to a supposedly haunted

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house but for you at the moment

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in the uk it must be a little bit tricky

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a little bit difficult to do your normal

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level of uh

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investigations it is it is um at the

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moment where

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we've got five stages of lockdown we're

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on stage three stage five was the most

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uh extreme i think we'll be in stage

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three for quite a while and that

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basically means we can't gather uh in

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groups of any more than 30 people

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and that obviously makes it very

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difficult for anyone who's running any

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event let alone a paranormal

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investigation

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particularly at night it's all this

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social distancing as well so it's

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keeping a distance from people

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um which is probably not a bad thing i

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think at the end of the day there's

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probably

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some benefit to it but it is quite

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difficult at the moment i know there's

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quite a few venues here that are

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suffering from as you can imagine lots

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of other businesses for different

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reasons so

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there are venues that would often have a

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lot of people going through in the

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evenings on the weekends

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particularly here now it's summer um

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it's the busiest time for this kind of

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stuff

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and they're not able to have as many

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people go through and of course they're

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months

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um like prior to now there was

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absolutely no

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events happening whatsoever until um i

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think it was july

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so it's it's hit it pretty hard in that

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sense and also dealing with private

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cases or residential cases

285
00:09:48,550 --> 00:09:47,200
uh there's been talk about people being

286
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indoors more than actually

287
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finding that there's more possible

288
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spooky happenings in their homes

289
00:09:55,350 --> 00:09:53,839
i think it's probably just more the fact

290
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they're spending more time at home as

291
00:09:58,949 --> 00:09:56,480
opposed to actually being

292
00:10:00,150 --> 00:09:58,959
out that's why i often find i get a lot

293
00:10:02,310 --> 00:10:00,160
more case inquiries

294
00:10:04,069 --> 00:10:02,320
in winter than i do in summer because a

295
00:10:05,590 --> 00:10:04,079
lot more people are indoors as well so

296
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i think that this is kind of almost

297
00:10:10,630 --> 00:10:08,079
supporting that idea that i have

298
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now you are involved in a group or is it

299
00:10:13,509 --> 00:10:11,360
is it

300
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your group i'm not exactly sure called

301
00:10:17,750 --> 00:10:16,079
access paranormal i like that because

302
00:10:19,190 --> 00:10:17,760
you wear the shirt don't you you wear

303
00:10:20,230 --> 00:10:19,200
the tank top and the shirt that says

304
00:10:21,910 --> 00:10:20,240
access paranormal

305
00:10:23,509 --> 00:10:21,920
that's right that's exactly it is my

306
00:10:25,190 --> 00:10:23,519
website um and it's

307
00:10:27,990 --> 00:10:25,200
originally just was a website for

308
00:10:29,509 --> 00:10:28,000
paranormal investigators in australia

309
00:10:31,350 --> 00:10:29,519
but i'm really really passionate about

310
00:10:33,030 --> 00:10:31,360
online learning for people who want to

311
00:10:35,269 --> 00:10:33,040
go out and do this because

312
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being in australia for so long you know

313
00:10:39,030 --> 00:10:37,279
having access to such information was

314
00:10:40,470 --> 00:10:39,040
was quite difficult you had to

315
00:10:42,550 --> 00:10:40,480
you know sort of fly over or you had to

316
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try and dig around and finding reliable

317
00:10:45,990 --> 00:10:44,560
information too it can just be

318
00:10:47,829 --> 00:10:46,000
a little harder you've got to really

319
00:10:49,509 --> 00:10:47,839
kind of dig about so i thought you know

320
00:10:51,190 --> 00:10:49,519
i'll create this website for the

321
00:10:51,750 --> 00:10:51,200
australian paranormal community and it's

322
00:10:53,590 --> 00:10:51,760
just

323
00:10:56,150 --> 00:10:53,600
sort of grown so much so it's more of an

324
00:10:58,630 --> 00:10:56,160
international website now which is great

325
00:10:59,990 --> 00:10:58,640
and some years back and sadly i couldn't

326
00:11:02,790 --> 00:11:00,000
make it at the time when we

327
00:11:03,350 --> 00:11:02,800
used to have skeptics in the pub in a

328
00:11:05,190 --> 00:11:03,360
pub

329
00:11:06,630 --> 00:11:05,200
you came and gave a talk here and for

330
00:11:08,870 --> 00:11:06,640
the sydney skeptics in the pub and i

331
00:11:11,110 --> 00:11:08,880
believe that was about um

332
00:11:12,710 --> 00:11:11,120
the paranormal and mental health can you

333
00:11:15,030 --> 00:11:12,720
expand upon that a little bit

334
00:11:16,230 --> 00:11:15,040
yes certainly um the talk was about the

335
00:11:18,230 --> 00:11:16,240
similarities between

336
00:11:19,670 --> 00:11:18,240
people who feel they're experiencing

337
00:11:21,350 --> 00:11:19,680
something paranormal

338
00:11:23,110 --> 00:11:21,360
compared to somebody who may actually be

339
00:11:25,430 --> 00:11:23,120
having a mental health

340
00:11:27,590 --> 00:11:25,440
illness or a crisis at that time and

341
00:11:28,310 --> 00:11:27,600
just the similarities of being aware of

342
00:11:30,310 --> 00:11:28,320
it that's

343
00:11:32,949 --> 00:11:30,320
very much from an ethical perspective as

344
00:11:34,790 --> 00:11:32,959
well so as an investigator i think it's

345
00:11:36,630 --> 00:11:34,800
particularly for possible paranormal

346
00:11:37,190 --> 00:11:36,640
phenomena i think it's really important

347
00:11:40,230 --> 00:11:37,200
to have

348
00:11:41,430 --> 00:11:40,240
a a good sound knowledge obviously

349
00:11:43,030 --> 00:11:41,440
you know there are people that are

350
00:11:44,150 --> 00:11:43,040
experts who are also paranormal

351
00:11:46,550 --> 00:11:44,160
investigators in

352
00:11:47,190 --> 00:11:46,560
mental illness and mental health but i

353
00:11:49,509 --> 00:11:47,200
think as

354
00:11:51,509 --> 00:11:49,519
a gen in the general population i think

355
00:11:54,629 --> 00:11:51,519
every investigator should actually do

356
00:11:56,069 --> 00:11:54,639
a mental health first aid course and uh

357
00:11:57,350 --> 00:11:56,079
be able but firstly to be able to help

358
00:11:59,110 --> 00:11:57,360
someone who's having a mental health

359
00:12:01,110 --> 00:11:59,120
crisis because that's the main reason

360
00:12:02,710 --> 00:12:01,120
but also gives a really good sound

361
00:12:04,949 --> 00:12:02,720
knowledge of the different types of

362
00:12:06,470 --> 00:12:04,959
mental illnesses people can experience

363
00:12:08,389 --> 00:12:06,480
and being aware of the fact that that

364
00:12:09,670 --> 00:12:08,399
might actually cross over into

365
00:12:11,910 --> 00:12:09,680
what people may feel like having a

366
00:12:13,350 --> 00:12:11,920
paranormal experience of course

367
00:12:14,629 --> 00:12:13,360
we don't diagnose or anything like

368
00:12:16,629 --> 00:12:14,639
that's not the case at all but just

369
00:12:19,269 --> 00:12:16,639
having that awareness so you know

370
00:12:21,110 --> 00:12:19,279
okay i think i might be above my my

371
00:12:22,949 --> 00:12:21,120
ground to be able to take this case on

372
00:12:24,710 --> 00:12:22,959
it needs to be referred to specialists

373
00:12:26,790 --> 00:12:24,720
instead like in the medical

374
00:12:29,110 --> 00:12:26,800
industry i think that's a it's a very

375
00:12:31,350 --> 00:12:29,120
good attitude to take because

376
00:12:33,190 --> 00:12:31,360
uh from time to time in the skeptical

377
00:12:36,629 --> 00:12:33,200
community we'll get people coming

378
00:12:39,110 --> 00:12:36,639
to us where in well for me for example

379
00:12:40,310 --> 00:12:39,120
in my completely uneducated opinion they

380
00:12:43,590 --> 00:12:40,320
may be in need of

381
00:12:45,030 --> 00:12:43,600
of more help or more guidance than i can

382
00:12:46,790 --> 00:12:45,040
possibly offer

383
00:12:48,069 --> 00:12:46,800
but i guess you would yes you would get

384
00:12:51,670 --> 00:12:48,079
people from time to time

385
00:12:54,069 --> 00:12:51,680
contacting you via access paranormal who

386
00:12:55,430 --> 00:12:54,079
would have worries and concerns maybe

387
00:12:56,629 --> 00:12:55,440
think they've got a haunted house but

388
00:12:58,949 --> 00:12:56,639
maybe have deep uh

389
00:13:00,389 --> 00:12:58,959
problems absolutely and it does happen

390
00:13:02,790 --> 00:13:00,399
that there are there are key

391
00:13:04,150 --> 00:13:02,800
things as you can imagine that you get

392
00:13:06,629 --> 00:13:04,160
kind of get flagged um

393
00:13:08,389 --> 00:13:06,639
as soon as they start speaking often i

394
00:13:09,350 --> 00:13:08,399
get emails and i can sort of tell

395
00:13:11,509 --> 00:13:09,360
through the emails

396
00:13:13,430 --> 00:13:11,519
uh with a certain language used and the

397
00:13:14,949 --> 00:13:13,440
certain things that people have said

398
00:13:16,470 --> 00:13:14,959
you know if there is actually something

399
00:13:17,910 --> 00:13:16,480
more that they need help with as opposed

400
00:13:19,350 --> 00:13:17,920
to something paranormal is like

401
00:13:20,870 --> 00:13:19,360
let's put that aside for now i think

402
00:13:21,829 --> 00:13:20,880
there might possibly be something else

403
00:13:23,509 --> 00:13:21,839
going on here

404
00:13:25,030 --> 00:13:23,519
and you learn to step away from that you

405
00:13:26,790 --> 00:13:25,040
know it's not a licensed

406
00:13:29,110 --> 00:13:26,800
job you know if there's no governing

407
00:13:31,269 --> 00:13:29,120
body there's no official qualification

408
00:13:32,870 --> 00:13:31,279
so it's it's it's all volunteer based as

409
00:13:35,030 --> 00:13:32,880
well and so you've got to really

410
00:13:36,870 --> 00:13:35,040
really um you know it's that ethical

411
00:13:38,069 --> 00:13:36,880
reasons for for stepping back and saying

412
00:13:39,590 --> 00:13:38,079
this is above

413
00:13:41,750 --> 00:13:39,600
what i can do to help this this

414
00:13:43,189 --> 00:13:41,760
obviously needs another specialized help

415
00:13:45,910 --> 00:13:43,199
that's professional

416
00:13:47,990 --> 00:13:45,920
and um in the medical field yeah yeah

417
00:13:50,230 --> 00:13:48,000
absolutely and i think that that is

418
00:13:51,189 --> 00:13:50,240
the correct uh the correct attitude to

419
00:13:53,189 --> 00:13:51,199
take uh

420
00:13:54,389 --> 00:13:53,199
finally beth i mean in all the years

421
00:13:56,230 --> 00:13:54,399
you've been doing this and you've been

422
00:13:57,910 --> 00:13:56,240
running around ghosty houses and haunted

423
00:13:59,670 --> 00:13:57,920
locations and things like that

424
00:14:01,350 --> 00:13:59,680
have you ever seen anything that went

425
00:14:02,550 --> 00:14:01,360
bump in the night that really had you

426
00:14:06,150 --> 00:14:02,560
scratching your head

427
00:14:07,269 --> 00:14:06,160
i did think i've seen an apparition and

428
00:14:08,870 --> 00:14:07,279
i always say think

429
00:14:11,509 --> 00:14:08,880
because i had someone else see it with

430
00:14:14,790 --> 00:14:11,519
me as well um when we were in a

431
00:14:16,629 --> 00:14:14,800
lovely old um pub in near

432
00:14:18,150 --> 00:14:16,639
goulburn area at just outside of

433
00:14:20,550 --> 00:14:18,160
goulburn and

434
00:14:21,829 --> 00:14:20,560
we were setting up and we knew the place

435
00:14:24,230 --> 00:14:21,839
was all locked off and

436
00:14:25,910 --> 00:14:24,240
uh there's a person we're paranormal

437
00:14:27,269 --> 00:14:25,920
investigators we all wear black

438
00:14:29,590 --> 00:14:27,279
so everyone's wearing black everyone

439
00:14:30,710 --> 00:14:29,600
knows so we look like night time

440
00:14:32,710 --> 00:14:30,720
you know as you do you've got it's got

441
00:14:35,829 --> 00:14:32,720
to be in your color right and

442
00:14:37,350 --> 00:14:35,839
i i we looked across and there was um

443
00:14:38,949 --> 00:14:37,360
sometimes you know with people who do

444
00:14:40,550 --> 00:14:38,959
feature walls they'll cut a section out

445
00:14:41,990 --> 00:14:40,560
and put glass instead so

446
00:14:43,590 --> 00:14:42,000
you know it's not the full wall but it's

447
00:14:45,509 --> 00:14:43,600
part of it and

448
00:14:48,150 --> 00:14:45,519
somebody had walked past in a denim blue

449
00:14:49,509 --> 00:14:48,160
shirt and sandy blonde hair

450
00:14:51,030 --> 00:14:49,519
and of course there's nobody who was

451
00:14:52,470 --> 00:14:51,040
wearing that at the time so i thought

452
00:14:54,470 --> 00:14:52,480
hang on i thought we've got the whole

453
00:14:56,069 --> 00:14:54,480
place to ourselves and so i went around

454
00:14:56,389 --> 00:14:56,079
the corner with my friend who saw i

455
00:14:58,710 --> 00:14:56,399
thought

456
00:15:00,389 --> 00:14:58,720
someone's someone must have broke in i

457
00:15:01,750 --> 00:15:00,399
went around the corner realizing as i

458
00:15:03,750 --> 00:15:01,760
was walking around the corners hard

459
00:15:05,670 --> 00:15:03,760
floors i'm like i can hear my feet

460
00:15:07,189 --> 00:15:05,680
walking on the floor i didn't hear

461
00:15:08,230 --> 00:15:07,199
footsteps before

462
00:15:09,750 --> 00:15:08,240
and obviously as i went around the

463
00:15:10,870 --> 00:15:09,760
corner that person was not there and

464
00:15:12,310 --> 00:15:10,880
actually realized they would have

465
00:15:14,150 --> 00:15:12,320
actually been half into the ground as

466
00:15:16,629 --> 00:15:14,160
well so

467
00:15:19,350 --> 00:15:16,639
it was very interesting so i don't know

468
00:15:20,790 --> 00:15:19,360
that's about to say isn't that fun

469
00:15:22,949 --> 00:15:20,800
and it reminds me of you know the good

470
00:15:24,310 --> 00:15:22,959
old stuff the stuff that i like the ufos

471
00:15:26,629 --> 00:15:24,320
and the monsters and the looking for

472
00:15:28,389 --> 00:15:26,639
ghosties and what was that sort of thing

473
00:15:30,069 --> 00:15:28,399
uh it really takes me back i think

474
00:15:31,829 --> 00:15:30,079
that's wonderful well beth darlington

475
00:15:33,189 --> 00:15:31,839
all the way over there in uk

476
00:15:35,189 --> 00:15:33,199
good luck with your future

477
00:15:37,189 --> 00:15:35,199
investigations into ghosties and

478
00:15:39,350 --> 00:15:37,199
and haunted places and you know what

479
00:15:39,990 --> 00:15:39,360
when this is all over beth one day i'd

480
00:15:42,230 --> 00:15:40,000
love to come

481
00:15:43,030 --> 00:15:42,240
on a ghost hunt with you that would be

482
00:15:44,710 --> 00:15:43,040
fantastic

483
00:15:46,310 --> 00:15:44,720
i would love to have you over here there

484
00:15:48,629 --> 00:15:46,320
are so many different

485
00:15:50,389 --> 00:15:48,639
venues and old buildings worth exploring

486
00:15:52,389 --> 00:15:50,399
in the spooky parts at night time so

487
00:15:54,150 --> 00:15:52,399
that would be great to have you over

488
00:15:56,069 --> 00:15:54,160
it would it wouldn't i look forward to

489
00:15:56,870 --> 00:15:56,079
it it would indeed but for now beth

490
00:16:06,829 --> 00:15:56,880
darlington

491
00:16:16,310 --> 00:16:09,520
richard

492
00:16:23,670 --> 00:16:21,110
dr alice howarth and michael marshall

493
00:16:25,829 --> 00:16:23,680
just two of the speakers for skepticon

494
00:16:29,749 --> 00:16:25,839
2020 the australian skeptics

495
00:16:34,389 --> 00:16:32,550
dr alice has a phd in cellular and

496
00:16:37,430 --> 00:16:34,399
molecular pharmacology

497
00:16:39,749 --> 00:16:37,440
in the field of cancer cell biology and

498
00:16:41,910 --> 00:16:39,759
is currently a clinical and molecular

499
00:16:44,069 --> 00:16:41,920
pharmacologist working in

500
00:16:46,069 --> 00:16:44,079
nano medicines at the university of

501
00:16:48,069 --> 00:16:46,079
liverpool in the uk

502
00:16:49,350 --> 00:16:48,079
as a vice president of the merseyside

503
00:16:51,990 --> 00:16:49,360
skeptic society

504
00:16:52,550 --> 00:16:52,000
alice has gone undercover to investigate

505
00:16:56,230 --> 00:16:52,560
false

506
00:16:58,389 --> 00:16:56,240
cancer cures flat earth beliefs and more

507
00:16:59,749 --> 00:16:58,399
alice is the co-host of the long-running

508
00:17:02,710 --> 00:16:59,759
skeptical podcast

509
00:17:06,549 --> 00:17:02,720
skeptics with a k a science communicator

510
00:17:10,470 --> 00:17:08,630
michael marshall is the project director

511
00:17:12,470 --> 00:17:10,480
of the good thinking society

512
00:17:13,590 --> 00:17:12,480
and president of the merseyside skeptic

513
00:17:15,750 --> 00:17:13,600
society

514
00:17:16,789 --> 00:17:15,760
he regularly speaks with proponents of

515
00:17:19,829 --> 00:17:16,799
pseudoscience

516
00:17:21,590 --> 00:17:19,839
for the be reasonable podcast

517
00:17:23,909 --> 00:17:21,600
his work has seen him organizing

518
00:17:26,710 --> 00:17:23,919
international homeopathy protests

519
00:17:27,909 --> 00:17:26,720
going undercover to expose psychics and

520
00:17:30,710 --> 00:17:27,919
quack medics

521
00:17:31,750 --> 00:17:30,720
spending a weekend embedded in the flat

522
00:17:35,350 --> 00:17:31,760
earth movement

523
00:17:38,150 --> 00:17:35,360
and co-founding the popular qed

524
00:17:39,990 --> 00:17:38,160
conference his work with good thinking

525
00:17:43,270 --> 00:17:40,000
was partly responsible

526
00:17:45,830 --> 00:17:43,280
for the end of homeopathy funding

527
00:17:47,270 --> 00:17:45,840
on the uk's national health service

528
00:17:49,990 --> 00:17:47,280
saving the country

529
00:17:50,950 --> 00:17:50,000
millions of pounds he has written for

530
00:17:54,390 --> 00:17:50,960
the guardian

531
00:17:58,470 --> 00:17:54,400
the times new scientist new statesman

532
00:18:00,150 --> 00:17:58,480
and the skeptic dr alice howarth and

533
00:18:02,789 --> 00:18:00,160
michael marshall just two of the

534
00:18:04,630 --> 00:18:02,799
speakers appearing at skepticon 2020

535
00:18:07,190 --> 00:18:04,640
the australian skeptics national

536
00:18:08,870 --> 00:18:07,200
convention

537
00:18:12,950 --> 00:18:08,880
for more information and to buy your

538
00:18:38,950 --> 00:18:28,310
org www.skepticcon.org a u

539
00:18:43,990 --> 00:18:38,960
[Music]

540
00:18:48,630 --> 00:18:46,789
what are logical fallacies and why is it

541
00:18:51,270 --> 00:18:48,640
important that critical thinkers should

542
00:18:53,590 --> 00:18:51,280
know about them

543
00:18:55,270 --> 00:18:53,600
a logical fallacy is an error we can

544
00:18:57,270 --> 00:18:55,280
make in reasoning

545
00:19:01,669 --> 00:18:57,280
but it usually crops up when we are

546
00:19:05,990 --> 00:19:03,750
some people might even knowingly use

547
00:19:06,870 --> 00:19:06,000
them to try and score cheap points in an

548
00:19:10,230 --> 00:19:06,880
argument

549
00:19:12,710 --> 00:19:10,240
due to intellectual laziness

550
00:19:14,549 --> 00:19:12,720
they are traps we can fall into but if

551
00:19:16,630 --> 00:19:14,559
we know what to look out for

552
00:19:20,230 --> 00:19:16,640
we can spot them when they occur and

553
00:19:21,430 --> 00:19:20,240
stop ourselves from using them

554
00:19:23,990 --> 00:19:21,440
[Music]

555
00:19:26,230 --> 00:19:24,000
this time we'll look at the anecdotal

556
00:19:28,630 --> 00:19:26,240
evidence fallacy

557
00:19:30,390 --> 00:19:28,640
this is when you are swayed into taking

558
00:19:33,430 --> 00:19:30,400
up a position or belief

559
00:19:36,549 --> 00:19:33,440
based on isolated examples of data

560
00:19:39,750 --> 00:19:36,559
poor data or personal experience

561
00:19:41,270 --> 00:19:39,760
rather than reliable evidence this

562
00:19:44,470 --> 00:19:41,280
logical fallacy

563
00:19:48,390 --> 00:19:44,480
is surely one of the most common and can

564
00:19:50,549 --> 00:19:48,400
be seen in many different circumstances

565
00:19:52,710 --> 00:19:50,559
it can come about from the intrinsic

566
00:19:53,830 --> 00:19:52,720
trust we have in the perceived wisdom of

567
00:19:57,430 --> 00:19:53,840
our friends

568
00:20:00,789 --> 00:19:57,440
and especially our family after all

569
00:20:03,590 --> 00:20:00,799
mother knows best i hear the

570
00:20:05,510 --> 00:20:03,600
vaxxed bus is touring the country they

571
00:20:06,070 --> 00:20:05,520
make videos of parents and others

572
00:20:09,590 --> 00:20:06,080
telling their

573
00:20:11,510 --> 00:20:09,600
stories of vaccine damage it seems then

574
00:20:14,230 --> 00:20:11,520
there must be something to the claims

575
00:20:16,230 --> 00:20:14,240
that vaccinations are unsafe

576
00:20:17,510 --> 00:20:16,240
here we have a classic case of people

577
00:20:20,789 --> 00:20:17,520
being swayed by the

578
00:20:23,350 --> 00:20:20,799
anecdotal evidence fallacy

579
00:20:26,070 --> 00:20:23,360
if vaccination was as dangerous as the

580
00:20:28,710 --> 00:20:26,080
anti-vaxxers would have us believe

581
00:20:31,029 --> 00:20:28,720
that fact would be reflected in ongoing

582
00:20:33,190 --> 00:20:31,039
studies worldwide

583
00:20:34,630 --> 00:20:33,200
but it can be compelling to see people

584
00:20:37,270 --> 00:20:34,640
pour their hearts out

585
00:20:39,270 --> 00:20:37,280
when they really do think vaccines have

586
00:20:42,470 --> 00:20:39,280
damaged their children

587
00:20:44,950 --> 00:20:42,480
people are so skeptical of acupuncture i

588
00:20:47,350 --> 00:20:44,960
bet they haven't tried it for themselves

589
00:20:48,789 --> 00:20:47,360
i was skeptical too until i tried it and

590
00:20:51,669 --> 00:20:48,799
i can tell you

591
00:20:52,789 --> 00:20:51,679
that i know it works because it worked

592
00:20:55,029 --> 00:20:52,799
for me

593
00:20:57,110 --> 00:20:55,039
skeptics have known for years that this

594
00:21:00,149 --> 00:20:57,120
sort of anecdotal evidence

595
00:21:03,350 --> 00:21:00,159
is almost impossible to counter

596
00:21:05,590 --> 00:21:03,360
when someone for whatever reason

597
00:21:06,470 --> 00:21:05,600
is convinced that a treatment has worked

598
00:21:10,070 --> 00:21:06,480
for them

599
00:21:13,590 --> 00:21:10,080
they will and understandably so

600
00:21:17,029 --> 00:21:13,600
stick to their guns no matter what

601
00:21:18,470 --> 00:21:17,039
alas in this case the scientific

602
00:21:22,390 --> 00:21:18,480
evidence for the claims of

603
00:21:25,270 --> 00:21:22,400
acupuncture are very much lacking

604
00:21:26,950 --> 00:21:25,280
they say the world is heating up and sea

605
00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:26,960
levels are rising

606
00:21:29,990 --> 00:21:29,520
but my family has been running the same

607
00:21:33,029 --> 00:21:30,000
oyster

608
00:21:36,310 --> 00:21:33,039
farm on the river for generations

609
00:21:37,990 --> 00:21:36,320
and you know what we haven't noticed any

610
00:21:41,430 --> 00:21:38,000
change in the water levels

611
00:21:43,669 --> 00:21:41,440
at all this example is based on a real

612
00:21:45,270 --> 00:21:43,679
interview with an oyster farmer in

613
00:21:48,310 --> 00:21:45,280
australia

614
00:21:51,830 --> 00:21:48,320
even though he might work on the river

615
00:21:52,149 --> 00:21:51,840
that doesn't mean he or his family going

616
00:21:55,270 --> 00:21:52,159
back

617
00:21:57,110 --> 00:21:55,280
years have kept accurate details of

618
00:22:00,310 --> 00:21:57,120
water levels

619
00:22:01,830 --> 00:22:00,320
however to him things seem more or less

620
00:22:04,390 --> 00:22:01,840
the same

621
00:22:07,710 --> 00:22:04,400
based on this he is ready to deny

622
00:22:11,430 --> 00:22:08,870
[Music]

623
00:22:13,029 --> 00:22:11,440
it is often very convenient to rely on

624
00:22:16,950 --> 00:22:13,039
anecdotal evidence

625
00:22:19,750 --> 00:22:16,960
and at some times it can seem intuitive

626
00:22:21,909 --> 00:22:19,760
no matter how sure we are we should

627
00:22:23,750 --> 00:22:21,919
never be afraid to check the basis of

628
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:23,760
our opinions and beliefs

629
00:22:33,990 --> 00:22:26,770
to see if they are based on shaky ground

630
00:22:36,070 --> 00:22:34,000
[Music]

631
00:22:37,029 --> 00:22:36,080
knowing a logical fallacy when you hear

632
00:22:39,830 --> 00:22:37,039
one and

633
00:22:42,310 --> 00:22:39,840
even knowing its name is important when

634
00:22:45,750 --> 00:22:42,320
arguing your point of view

635
00:22:48,149 --> 00:22:45,760
however you may come across as arrogant

636
00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:48,159
and not get very far if you call it out

637
00:22:51,270 --> 00:22:48,960
by name

638
00:22:53,350 --> 00:22:51,280
to your opponent when you hear it being

639
00:22:55,909 --> 00:22:53,360
used

640
00:22:56,710 --> 00:22:55,919
if your opponent calls you out for using

641
00:22:58,950 --> 00:22:56,720
one

642
00:23:01,990 --> 00:22:58,960
it's time to stop and think about how

643
00:23:04,149 --> 00:23:02,000
you are making your case

644
00:23:05,350 --> 00:23:04,159
use your knowledge of logical fallacies

645
00:23:08,070 --> 00:23:05,360
wisely

646
00:23:09,350 --> 00:23:08,080
and remember that even if your point of

647
00:23:11,669 --> 00:23:09,360
view is right

648
00:23:12,950 --> 00:23:11,679
and you know all the pitfalls in arguing

649
00:23:15,430 --> 00:23:12,960
your case

650
00:23:16,630 --> 00:23:15,440
it doesn't always mean you'll win on the

651
00:23:19,909 --> 00:23:16,640
day

652
00:23:22,460 --> 00:23:19,919
and as skeptics we must also remember

653
00:23:25,510 --> 00:23:22,470
that we too can be wrong at times

654
00:23:27,270 --> 00:23:25,520
[Music]

655
00:23:38,670 --> 00:23:27,280
i'm michelle bickersma from the vic

656
00:23:43,990 --> 00:23:42,390
[Music]

657
00:23:45,590 --> 00:23:44,000
and now ladies and gentlemen it's a

658
00:23:50,070 --> 00:23:45,600
press room here at nasa

659
00:23:52,390 --> 00:23:50,080
this gives us a view of mission control

660
00:23:54,390 --> 00:23:52,400
up there on the giant screen you'll see

661
00:23:55,750 --> 00:23:54,400
the mission status of the solar flare

662
00:23:58,549 --> 00:23:55,760
space capsule

663
00:23:59,909 --> 00:23:58,559
from the australian space service or ass

664
00:24:01,350 --> 00:23:59,919
for short

665
00:24:03,190 --> 00:24:01,360
this is a part of our ongoing

666
00:24:05,430 --> 00:24:03,200
international cooperation

667
00:24:09,430 --> 00:24:05,440
as you can see the solar flare is on

668
00:24:13,990 --> 00:24:12,149
the pilot captain richard saunders won

669
00:24:15,190 --> 00:24:14,000
his chance to fly to the moon in a

670
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:15,200
national lottery

671
00:24:21,190 --> 00:24:18,650
held in australia

672
00:24:23,990 --> 00:24:21,200
[Music]

673
00:24:24,950 --> 00:24:24,000
mission control to solar flare mission

674
00:24:27,820 --> 00:24:24,960
control to

675
00:24:29,430 --> 00:24:27,830
solar flare come in solar flare

676
00:24:32,149 --> 00:24:29,440
[Music]

677
00:24:32,870 --> 00:24:32,159
solar flare to houston solar flare

678
00:24:35,029 --> 00:24:32,880
houston

679
00:24:36,789 --> 00:24:35,039
captain saunders here how are you

680
00:24:39,830 --> 00:24:36,799
reading me houston

681
00:24:40,310 --> 00:24:39,840
houston here flight director dunning we

682
00:24:43,430 --> 00:24:40,320
have a

683
00:24:45,510 --> 00:24:43,440
worldwide hookup today so hi from nasa

684
00:24:48,310 --> 00:24:45,520
to wherever you're hearing us

685
00:24:49,190 --> 00:24:48,320
now your flight status is looking good

686
00:24:52,310 --> 00:24:49,200
solar flare

687
00:24:55,350 --> 00:24:52,320
need you to check your o2 levels

688
00:25:01,190 --> 00:24:55,360
uh we have them at uh one

689
00:25:04,549 --> 00:25:01,200
niner 6.5 uh roger that houston

690
00:25:07,110 --> 00:25:04,559
o2 levels are set we

691
00:25:08,390 --> 00:25:07,120
also have a message from the australian

692
00:25:10,870 --> 00:25:08,400
prime minister

693
00:25:12,070 --> 00:25:10,880
she wants you to bring back some moon

694
00:25:13,909 --> 00:25:12,080
aliens

695
00:25:16,950 --> 00:25:13,919
she says they'll do a better job than

696
00:25:18,630 --> 00:25:16,960
her current cabinet

697
00:25:20,950 --> 00:25:18,640
tell her i'll vote for her next time if

698
00:25:22,710 --> 00:25:20,960
she lowers my taxes

699
00:25:24,470 --> 00:25:22,720
i have about three hours before

700
00:25:28,310 --> 00:25:24,480
beginning my descent down

701
00:25:29,430 --> 00:25:28,320
to the lunar surface very smooth ride so

702
00:25:32,789 --> 00:25:29,440
far

703
00:25:34,870 --> 00:25:32,799
didn't feel the lift off at all man

704
00:25:36,549 --> 00:25:34,880
those rocket scientists you have really

705
00:25:38,870 --> 00:25:36,559
know their stuff

706
00:25:40,070 --> 00:25:38,880
and the artificial gravity is working

707
00:25:43,350 --> 00:25:40,080
well

708
00:25:44,950 --> 00:25:43,360
roger solar flare yeah that artificial

709
00:25:48,390 --> 00:25:44,960
gravity huh

710
00:25:51,830 --> 00:25:48,400
hey houston i have to report that the

711
00:25:53,269 --> 00:25:51,840
stars look very different today how so

712
00:25:56,149 --> 00:25:53,279
solar flare

713
00:25:57,990 --> 00:25:56,159
hard to pin down but they look like

714
00:25:59,990 --> 00:25:58,000
they've been drawn onto the background

715
00:26:03,190 --> 00:26:00,000
of space with

716
00:26:05,430 --> 00:26:03,200
with a crayon roger that uh

717
00:26:06,630 --> 00:26:05,440
solar flare you do know this is a public

718
00:26:09,830 --> 00:26:06,640
broadcast

719
00:26:14,070 --> 00:26:09,840
we are going out live around the world

720
00:26:15,590 --> 00:26:14,080
okay right understood then uh hi to my

721
00:26:17,350 --> 00:26:15,600
friends in australia

722
00:26:19,909 --> 00:26:17,360
sorry i don't have a view of the earth

723
00:26:21,830 --> 00:26:19,919
but the reversing camera hasn't

724
00:26:24,630 --> 00:26:21,840
functioned since takeoff

725
00:26:25,510 --> 00:26:24,640
now captain saunders we need you to

726
00:26:30,230 --> 00:26:25,520
start the

727
00:26:34,470 --> 00:26:30,240
uh special procedure in two hours

728
00:26:37,510 --> 00:26:34,480
uh special procedure houston

729
00:26:41,029 --> 00:26:37,520
not sure i've been informed about that

730
00:26:41,510 --> 00:26:41,039
the uh special procedure the one your

731
00:26:43,669 --> 00:26:41,520
prime

732
00:26:44,549 --> 00:26:43,679
minister briefed you on in canberra

733
00:26:48,230 --> 00:26:44,559
before you

734
00:26:51,590 --> 00:26:48,240
left australia all right the briefing

735
00:26:53,190 --> 00:26:51,600
yeah um i missed that one

736
00:26:54,950 --> 00:26:53,200
couldn't travel at the time owing to

737
00:26:57,990 --> 00:26:54,960
covet 19.

738
00:27:01,430 --> 00:26:58,000
is this special procedure important

739
00:27:03,830 --> 00:27:01,440
uh standby solar flare

740
00:27:06,149 --> 00:27:03,840
uh hey hey ben uh he says he wasn't

741
00:27:07,590 --> 00:27:06,159
briefed about the special procedure

742
00:27:09,830 --> 00:27:07,600
also why does he think there's

743
00:27:10,950 --> 00:27:09,840
artificial gravity and why did he talk

744
00:27:14,070 --> 00:27:10,960
about the stars being

745
00:27:15,350 --> 00:27:14,080
painted on i mean i did the best i could

746
00:27:17,350 --> 00:27:15,360
yeah well you know i think you could

747
00:27:18,070 --> 00:27:17,360
have done a better job use paint next

748
00:27:20,630 --> 00:27:18,080
time huh

749
00:27:22,230 --> 00:27:20,640
i think they look pretty but the does

750
00:27:24,389 --> 00:27:22,240
captain saunders

751
00:27:25,590 --> 00:27:24,399
no he can't i mean does he think he's

752
00:27:28,230 --> 00:27:25,600
really in space

753
00:27:29,110 --> 00:27:28,240
i think he does oh okay matt okay man

754
00:27:32,549 --> 00:27:29,120
you have the con

755
00:27:34,149 --> 00:27:32,559
i have to attend to this okay uh solar

756
00:27:36,230 --> 00:27:34,159
player this is houston

757
00:27:37,990 --> 00:27:36,240
uh mission deputy radford keep on your

758
00:27:39,269 --> 00:27:38,000
current trajectory and we'll update you

759
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:39,279
soon

760
00:27:43,990 --> 00:27:40,970
roger that houston

761
00:27:47,110 --> 00:27:44,000
[Music]

762
00:27:48,870 --> 00:27:47,120
to the honorable prime minister of

763
00:27:56,630 --> 00:27:48,880
australia

764
00:28:00,630 --> 00:27:56,640
dear prime minister i am

765
00:28:03,750 --> 00:28:00,640
writing to you about a tricky situation

766
00:28:04,870 --> 00:28:03,760
with the current moon mission with your

767
00:28:08,389 --> 00:28:04,880
astronaut

768
00:28:14,870 --> 00:28:11,590
it appears he is unaware

769
00:28:19,430 --> 00:28:14,880
of the special procedure

770
00:28:22,549 --> 00:28:19,440
that is of faking a lunar landing

771
00:28:25,750 --> 00:28:22,559
and seems to be under the impression

772
00:28:30,389 --> 00:28:25,760
that he is really going

773
00:28:33,590 --> 00:28:30,399
to the moon as you know we

774
00:28:37,430 --> 00:28:33,600
here at nasa have spent a lot of

775
00:28:41,669 --> 00:28:37,440
time and money faking moon missions

776
00:28:45,190 --> 00:28:41,679
since the 1960s after we discovered

777
00:28:48,789 --> 00:28:45,200
the moon like the earth

778
00:28:52,470 --> 00:28:48,799
is flat i know how important

779
00:28:56,230 --> 00:28:52,480
it is for australia not to mention

780
00:28:59,590 --> 00:28:56,240
your re-election chances

781
00:29:02,950 --> 00:28:59,600
to seem to be in the forefront

782
00:29:06,070 --> 00:29:02,960
of space exploration even

783
00:29:10,310 --> 00:29:06,080
if it's 60 years late but

784
00:29:18,230 --> 00:29:14,630
for a problem with captain saunders

785
00:29:21,350 --> 00:29:18,240
i suggest we try the

786
00:29:24,470 --> 00:29:21,360
capricorn one solution

787
00:29:27,590 --> 00:29:24,480
we have a disused hanger

788
00:29:31,110 --> 00:29:27,600
over in area 51

789
00:29:34,389 --> 00:29:31,120
left vacant since the last et

790
00:29:37,909 --> 00:29:34,399
escaped in 2016.

791
00:29:38,310 --> 00:29:37,919
i'm sure we can tell him the mission has

792
00:29:41,750 --> 00:29:38,320
been

793
00:29:45,669 --> 00:29:41,760
aborted and convinced him he

794
00:29:49,110 --> 00:29:45,679
really returned to australia

795
00:29:54,470 --> 00:29:49,120
if we give him enough

796
00:29:57,909 --> 00:29:54,480
vegemite toast yours etc etc

797
00:29:58,549 --> 00:29:57,919
ps anytime your country wants to take

798
00:30:03,669 --> 00:29:58,559
back

799
00:30:07,190 --> 00:30:03,679
can ham be our guest

800
00:30:11,990 --> 00:30:07,200
solar flare to houston uh houston

801
00:30:15,750 --> 00:30:12,000
we have a problem roger solar flare

802
00:30:18,870 --> 00:30:15,760
it seems that someone or something

803
00:30:22,470 --> 00:30:18,880
is outside the capsule uh

804
00:30:34,830 --> 00:30:22,480
touching up the stars with a paintbrush

805
00:30:37,669 --> 00:30:36,310
radford

806
00:30:39,190 --> 00:30:37,679
good day this is dr karl karl

807
00:30:40,549 --> 00:30:39,200
kruschmusky proud to be a skeptic and

808
00:30:42,870 --> 00:30:40,559
you can find out more about me

809
00:30:51,340 --> 00:30:42,880
at drcarl.com and get lots of free stuff

810
00:31:05,029 --> 00:30:51,350
there as well

811
00:31:06,789 --> 00:31:05,039
[Music]

812
00:31:08,710 --> 00:31:06,799
now as mentioned a couple of weeks ago

813
00:31:10,389 --> 00:31:08,720
on the show or maybe a bit more

814
00:31:11,830 --> 00:31:10,399
there are lots of contenders this year

815
00:31:14,950 --> 00:31:11,840
for the australian skeptics

816
00:31:16,470 --> 00:31:14,960
bent spoon award yeah awarded to the

817
00:31:18,630 --> 00:31:16,480
most preposterous piece of paranormal

818
00:31:20,549 --> 00:31:18,640
pseudoscientific before

819
00:31:21,830 --> 00:31:20,559
you know the sort of thing in the past

820
00:31:24,310 --> 00:31:21,840
that's gone to people

821
00:31:25,110 --> 00:31:24,320
advocating water divining various

822
00:31:29,029 --> 00:31:25,120
alternative

823
00:31:31,029 --> 00:31:29,039
medicine anti-vaccination views

824
00:31:32,549 --> 00:31:31,039
one year it went to a woman who said she

825
00:31:36,470 --> 00:31:32,559
could live on

826
00:31:38,710 --> 00:31:36,480
air alone breatharianism

827
00:31:39,830 --> 00:31:38,720
and you can spend a very enjoyable

828
00:31:41,669 --> 00:31:39,840
couple of hours

829
00:31:44,149 --> 00:31:41,679
going through the list of past winners

830
00:31:48,149 --> 00:31:44,159
of the ben spoon award stretching back

831
00:31:50,470 --> 00:31:48,159
in almost 40 years owing to covert 19

832
00:31:51,509 --> 00:31:50,480
indeed some of the previous winners are

833
00:31:53,110 --> 00:31:51,519
back again

834
00:31:55,269 --> 00:31:53,120
and one we've mentioned before on the

835
00:31:58,230 --> 00:31:55,279
show the

836
00:31:59,509 --> 00:31:58,240
man who always seems to go by the tag

837
00:32:04,070 --> 00:31:59,519
celebrity chef

838
00:32:07,590 --> 00:32:04,080
pete evans and this is a bit of a story

839
00:32:10,630 --> 00:32:07,600
that appeared in news.com.edu

840
00:32:11,509 --> 00:32:10,640
pete evans labeled hypocrite for covert

841
00:32:14,710 --> 00:32:11,519
19

842
00:32:17,430 --> 00:32:14,720
safety measures in his byron bay

843
00:32:19,269 --> 00:32:17,440
healing clinic and this is an article by

844
00:32:22,630 --> 00:32:19,279
rebecca skellen

845
00:32:25,830 --> 00:32:22,640
published on the 19th of august the tv

846
00:32:28,789 --> 00:32:25,840
chef there we go tv chef the tv

847
00:32:29,590 --> 00:32:28,799
chef's new byron healing clinic and

848
00:32:31,990 --> 00:32:29,600
healing

849
00:32:34,149 --> 00:32:32,000
clinic is in quotes appears to be

850
00:32:36,230 --> 00:32:34,159
adhering to social distancing

851
00:32:37,909 --> 00:32:36,240
which has left many labeling the

852
00:32:41,029 --> 00:32:37,919
anti-vaxxer

853
00:32:43,750 --> 00:32:41,039
a hypocrite and it says in part

854
00:32:45,909 --> 00:32:43,760
he's been spouting bizarre and

855
00:32:48,389 --> 00:32:45,919
potentially dangerous claims about the

856
00:32:51,669 --> 00:32:48,399
virus on his social media channels

857
00:32:54,070 --> 00:32:51,679
stating quote there is no pandemic

858
00:32:55,269 --> 00:32:54,080
end quote but now pete evans is being

859
00:32:58,870 --> 00:32:55,279
accused of being a

860
00:33:02,549 --> 00:32:58,880
hypocrite and that's in quotes too

861
00:33:05,669 --> 00:33:02,559
after photos of his new quotes again

862
00:33:08,549 --> 00:33:05,679
healing clinic in quote in byron bay

863
00:33:09,269 --> 00:33:08,559
new south wales show the business is

864
00:33:12,870 --> 00:33:09,279
following

865
00:33:15,750 --> 00:33:12,880
covet 19 safe practices including

866
00:33:16,230 --> 00:33:15,760
having a hand sanitizer station the

867
00:33:19,029 --> 00:33:16,240
clinic

868
00:33:20,549 --> 00:33:19,039
is yet to open its doors to clients but

869
00:33:24,149 --> 00:33:20,559
preparation for those

870
00:33:26,870 --> 00:33:24,159
seeking evan's quote transformational

871
00:33:27,909 --> 00:33:26,880
practices end quote at evolve health

872
00:33:30,710 --> 00:33:27,919
labs

873
00:33:31,669 --> 00:33:30,720
is well underway while there are no

874
00:33:34,070 --> 00:33:31,679
suggestions that

875
00:33:36,549 --> 00:33:34,080
evans is doing wrong by adhering to the

876
00:33:38,389 --> 00:33:36,559
government's social distancing measures

877
00:33:41,350 --> 00:33:38,399
many have pointed out it goes against

878
00:33:42,950 --> 00:33:41,360
the statements the 47 year old

879
00:33:44,549 --> 00:33:42,960
why that's important we should know his

880
00:33:47,669 --> 00:33:44,559
age i don't know but there you go

881
00:33:51,430 --> 00:33:47,679
the 47 year old has made doubting

882
00:33:53,909 --> 00:33:51,440
the coronavirus is even real

883
00:33:55,990 --> 00:33:53,919
a tweet posted earlier today calls out

884
00:33:58,230 --> 00:33:56,000
the former tv chef

885
00:34:00,710 --> 00:33:58,240
but forever whatever else he does in his

886
00:34:01,509 --> 00:34:00,720
whole life he'll always be called the tv

887
00:34:06,789 --> 00:34:01,519
chef

888
00:34:09,990 --> 00:34:06,799
venture labeling evans a hypocrite

889
00:34:14,069 --> 00:34:10,000
quote pete evans says that

890
00:34:17,109 --> 00:34:14,079
hashtag covid 19 and wearing masks

891
00:34:19,349 --> 00:34:17,119
is all bull he wants you to march in the

892
00:34:23,990 --> 00:34:19,359
streets against conformity

893
00:34:27,430 --> 00:34:24,000
but his new shop has distancing measures

894
00:34:29,270 --> 00:34:27,440
and sanitizer and he wears masks

895
00:34:31,270 --> 00:34:29,280
sucks when your heroes are hypocrites

896
00:34:34,710 --> 00:34:31,280
doesn't it end quote

897
00:34:38,470 --> 00:34:34,720
and that was a tweet from at cam

898
00:34:40,389 --> 00:34:38,480
lives here and i'll be linking

899
00:34:42,389 --> 00:34:40,399
to this article in this week's show

900
00:34:44,550 --> 00:34:42,399
notes it goes on to say

901
00:34:46,470 --> 00:34:44,560
while the front of the clinic can't be

902
00:34:48,869 --> 00:34:46,480
seen in the snap

903
00:34:51,430 --> 00:34:48,879
referring to a photograph on that page a

904
00:34:53,990 --> 00:34:51,440
distinctive logo on the reception desk

905
00:34:55,669 --> 00:34:54,000
where the sign is displayed is visible

906
00:34:57,910 --> 00:34:55,679
and matches that featured on the

907
00:35:01,510 --> 00:34:57,920
clinic's instagram page

908
00:35:02,150 --> 00:35:01,520
evolve health labs as a result others

909
00:35:04,150 --> 00:35:02,160
were

910
00:35:06,790 --> 00:35:04,160
quick to jump on board accusing the

911
00:35:08,950 --> 00:35:06,800
anti-vaxxer turned conspiracy theorist

912
00:35:10,230 --> 00:35:08,960
of shunning his controversial views to

913
00:35:13,670 --> 00:35:10,240
make money

914
00:35:15,750 --> 00:35:13,680
one person said he quote doesn't want to

915
00:35:18,710 --> 00:35:15,760
lose dollars dollars dollars

916
00:35:20,950 --> 00:35:18,720
end quote while another argued his bold

917
00:35:24,790 --> 00:35:20,960
statements about coronavirus

918
00:35:26,310 --> 00:35:24,800
were just for attention and another snap

919
00:35:29,510 --> 00:35:26,320
on the page

920
00:35:31,589 --> 00:35:29,520
has a sign saying help us keep everyone

921
00:35:34,150 --> 00:35:31,599
safe from covert 19

922
00:35:35,030 --> 00:35:34,160
do not visit if you have and it lists

923
00:35:38,470 --> 00:35:35,040
the various

924
00:35:39,910 --> 00:35:38,480
symptoms of coronavirus now if you

925
00:35:43,510 --> 00:35:39,920
recall

926
00:35:43,990 --> 00:35:43,520
pete evans has already been fined by the

927
00:35:47,109 --> 00:35:44,000
government

928
00:35:48,230 --> 00:35:47,119
for promoting a box of lights called a

929
00:35:50,069 --> 00:35:48,240
biocharger

930
00:35:51,670 --> 00:35:50,079
costing only fourteen thousand nine

931
00:35:54,710 --> 00:35:51,680
hundred ninety dollars

932
00:35:55,750 --> 00:35:54,720
that uh he claimed had healing

933
00:35:59,349 --> 00:35:55,760
properties for

934
00:36:02,310 --> 00:35:59,359
the wuhan virus and it says here

935
00:36:03,670 --> 00:36:02,320
he's been sharing countless conspiracy

936
00:36:07,990 --> 00:36:03,680
theory memes

937
00:36:11,190 --> 00:36:08,000
one of which asks his 263

938
00:36:12,710 --> 00:36:11,200
thousand followers if covert 19 was the

939
00:36:15,910 --> 00:36:12,720
quote

940
00:36:16,710 --> 00:36:15,920
biggest scam endemic in history end

941
00:36:18,870 --> 00:36:16,720
quote

942
00:36:20,630 --> 00:36:18,880
now we look around a bit more in another

943
00:36:21,910 --> 00:36:20,640
story in a similar vein that's come my

944
00:36:25,190 --> 00:36:21,920
way from

945
00:36:28,950 --> 00:36:25,200
also from news.com.eu is about

946
00:36:31,910 --> 00:36:28,960
doctors slamming covet 19 anti-vaxxers

947
00:36:34,069 --> 00:36:31,920
by dr zach turner a sydney doctor has

948
00:36:36,230 --> 00:36:34,079
spoken out saying anyone who refuses the

949
00:36:38,829 --> 00:36:36,240
covet 19 vaccination should be

950
00:36:40,390 --> 00:36:38,839
banned from traveling interstate and

951
00:36:42,550 --> 00:36:40,400
overseas

952
00:36:44,550 --> 00:36:42,560
and let's say that's assuming that a

953
00:36:49,030 --> 00:36:44,560
vaccine comes along

954
00:36:51,670 --> 00:36:49,040
which works which has yet to be seen

955
00:36:53,430 --> 00:36:51,680
the story says with news of vaccines

956
00:36:56,390 --> 00:36:53,440
reaching their final stages

957
00:36:58,470 --> 00:36:56,400
and our government signing a deal to buy

958
00:37:00,310 --> 00:36:58,480
25 million doses

959
00:37:01,829 --> 00:37:00,320
many of us are thinking with the relief

960
00:37:05,030 --> 00:37:01,839
that it

961
00:37:07,030 --> 00:37:05,040
it's all over unfortunately it is not

962
00:37:08,870 --> 00:37:07,040
even close to half way

963
00:37:11,670 --> 00:37:08,880
to achieve herd immunity and completely

964
00:37:15,030 --> 00:37:11,680
eradicate the transmission of covert 19

965
00:37:17,349 --> 00:37:15,040
australia would need about 80 to 95

966
00:37:20,390 --> 00:37:17,359
percent of its population vaccinated

967
00:37:24,950 --> 00:37:20,400
which in reality may take up until

968
00:37:28,310 --> 00:37:24,960
late next year now on this page

969
00:37:28,870 --> 00:37:28,320
there's a little uh little vote and it

970
00:37:31,349 --> 00:37:28,880
says

971
00:37:34,950 --> 00:37:31,359
would you take a covert 19 vaccine

972
00:37:38,470 --> 00:37:34,960
question mark yes or no cast your vote

973
00:37:40,069 --> 00:37:38,480
well what can we assume can we assume

974
00:37:42,470 --> 00:37:40,079
are they asking you would you take a

975
00:37:45,990 --> 00:37:42,480
covert 19 vaccine

976
00:37:48,390 --> 00:37:46,000
presumably it would work so

977
00:37:51,190 --> 00:37:48,400
a covet 19 vaccine that works that is

978
00:37:52,790 --> 00:37:51,200
true that is real that is effective

979
00:37:54,550 --> 00:37:52,800
of course it could be argued what this

980
00:37:55,829 --> 00:37:54,560
question is saying is would you take a

981
00:37:57,990 --> 00:37:55,839
covet 19

982
00:37:59,829 --> 00:37:58,000
vaccine or something that's labeled as

983
00:38:03,510 --> 00:37:59,839
such or hopeful or whatever

984
00:38:06,630 --> 00:38:03,520
let's see what there let's see what the

985
00:38:09,589 --> 00:38:06,640
results are so far and if i press

986
00:38:11,190 --> 00:38:09,599
yes assuming it's a real the real deal

987
00:38:15,950 --> 00:38:11,200
they're talking about cast your vote

988
00:38:19,270 --> 00:38:15,960
then the page loads ooh out of 98

989
00:38:22,470 --> 00:38:19,280
441 voters

990
00:38:25,750 --> 00:38:22,480
31 say yes

991
00:38:28,230 --> 00:38:25,760
69 say no and this

992
00:38:29,430 --> 00:38:28,240
reminds us that these sort of online

993
00:38:32,710 --> 00:38:29,440
votes

994
00:38:34,069 --> 00:38:32,720
are very unscientific and completely

995
00:38:37,750 --> 00:38:34,079
unreliable

996
00:38:39,750 --> 00:38:37,760
but i wonder if the anti-vaxxers or the

997
00:38:42,230 --> 00:38:39,760
flying monkeys as they're known

998
00:38:42,790 --> 00:38:42,240
have swooped on this page to heavily

999
00:38:45,430 --> 00:38:42,800
vote

1000
00:38:46,230 --> 00:38:45,440
no now it gets better don't worry i'll

1001
00:38:52,950 --> 00:38:46,240
i'll

1002
00:38:55,829 --> 00:38:52,960
voting uh box down the page a little bit

1003
00:38:58,310 --> 00:38:55,839
says should the covet 19 vaccine be

1004
00:39:02,150 --> 00:38:58,320
mandatory well well

1005
00:39:05,670 --> 00:39:02,160
okay why not for the sake of

1006
00:39:05,990 --> 00:39:05,680
this exercise i'll click yes there we go

1007
00:39:14,510 --> 00:39:06,000
i

1008
00:39:18,069 --> 00:39:14,520
the results are out of 86

1009
00:39:22,069 --> 00:39:18,079
075 votes 26

1010
00:39:24,150 --> 00:39:22,079
say yes and 74 percent say

1011
00:39:26,069 --> 00:39:24,160
no the story goes on to say the

1012
00:39:26,550 --> 00:39:26,079
government should consider updating the

1013
00:39:29,270 --> 00:39:26,560
current

1014
00:39:30,870 --> 00:39:29,280
quote yellow fever vaccination passport

1015
00:39:31,670 --> 00:39:30,880
end quote issued to australians who

1016
00:39:34,630 --> 00:39:31,680
receive

1017
00:39:35,589 --> 00:39:34,640
vaccinations before visiting high-risk

1018
00:39:37,190 --> 00:39:35,599
countries

1019
00:39:39,670 --> 00:39:37,200
these could easily be turned into

1020
00:39:40,069 --> 00:39:39,680
electronic vaccine cards and offered to

1021
00:39:43,510 --> 00:39:40,079
each

1022
00:39:45,910 --> 00:39:43,520
australian well gee

1023
00:39:47,589 --> 00:39:45,920
if we could peer into the future if we

1024
00:39:49,270 --> 00:39:47,599
could peer into the future we don't know

1025
00:39:51,670 --> 00:39:49,280
what it's going to be like

1026
00:39:53,349 --> 00:39:51,680
when and if there's a viable vaccine

1027
00:39:56,390 --> 00:39:53,359
with this sort of

1028
00:39:58,470 --> 00:39:56,400
travel and passports and

1029
00:40:00,150 --> 00:39:58,480
do you get a green tick do you get a

1030
00:40:01,990 --> 00:40:00,160
tattoo

1031
00:40:04,069 --> 00:40:02,000
have you had the flu have you had the

1032
00:40:06,230 --> 00:40:04,079
coronavirus vaccine yes i have well how

1033
00:40:08,230 --> 00:40:06,240
do we know it's in my passport oh not

1034
00:40:09,190 --> 00:40:08,240
good enough show us your tattoo i don't

1035
00:40:12,150 --> 00:40:09,200
know

1036
00:40:13,670 --> 00:40:12,160
the future no i don't think there are

1037
00:40:16,790 --> 00:40:13,680
going to be tattoos

1038
00:40:17,349 --> 00:40:16,800
and finally to wrap up this little covet

1039
00:40:21,349 --> 00:40:17,359
19

1040
00:40:24,950 --> 00:40:21,359
vaccination anti-vaccination

1041
00:40:26,790 --> 00:40:24,960
segment you would

1042
00:40:28,230 --> 00:40:26,800
be aware after listening to the skeptic

1043
00:40:29,349 --> 00:40:28,240
zone for the last little while of the

1044
00:40:31,190 --> 00:40:29,359
vaxxed bus

1045
00:40:32,550 --> 00:40:31,200
and the work the australian skeptics did

1046
00:40:34,630 --> 00:40:32,560
to counter this vaxxed

1047
00:40:36,150 --> 00:40:34,640
bus the vaxxed bus is no longer

1048
00:40:39,589 --> 00:40:36,160
traveling at the moment

1049
00:40:41,190 --> 00:40:39,599
it plans to be again

1050
00:40:43,109 --> 00:40:41,200
and this notice has come to our

1051
00:40:45,670 --> 00:40:43,119
attention vaxxed

1052
00:40:47,109 --> 00:40:45,680
down under we are excited to announce

1053
00:40:50,390 --> 00:40:47,119
that the north queensland

1054
00:40:52,069 --> 00:40:50,400
vaxxed down under tour will begin on the

1055
00:40:54,069 --> 00:40:52,079
10th of september

1056
00:40:56,390 --> 00:40:54,079
if you live in north or central

1057
00:40:57,430 --> 00:40:56,400
queensland and want to meet up with the

1058
00:41:00,790 --> 00:40:57,440
bus

1059
00:41:02,470 --> 00:41:00,800
please fill out the survey monkey so we

1060
00:41:05,829 --> 00:41:02,480
know where to find you

1061
00:41:07,270 --> 00:41:05,839
and can plan accordingly and it provides

1062
00:41:11,270 --> 00:41:07,280
a link and also

1063
00:41:12,470 --> 00:41:11,280
lists some of the i guess the proposed

1064
00:41:15,829 --> 00:41:12,480
areas

1065
00:41:18,630 --> 00:41:15,839
where this vaxxed bus may be heading

1066
00:41:20,470 --> 00:41:18,640
so i'll read out the list published and

1067
00:41:22,470 --> 00:41:20,480
if you're in one of these areas or you

1068
00:41:24,870 --> 00:41:22,480
know someone in one of these areas

1069
00:41:26,950 --> 00:41:24,880
you may wish to take advantage of the

1070
00:41:29,990 --> 00:41:26,960
australian skeptics press release about

1071
00:41:32,950 --> 00:41:30,000
this vax bus and the people behind it

1072
00:41:34,390 --> 00:41:32,960
who to be blunt think that coronavirus

1073
00:41:37,829 --> 00:41:34,400
is a scam

1074
00:41:42,309 --> 00:41:37,839
and not a real threat so

1075
00:41:46,829 --> 00:41:42,319
people in gimpy harvey bay

1076
00:41:50,630 --> 00:41:46,839
bundaberg gladstone rockhampton

1077
00:41:54,710 --> 00:41:50,640
mackay townsville cairns

1078
00:41:59,190 --> 00:41:54,720
atherton greenvale charters towers

1079
00:42:03,190 --> 00:41:59,200
claremont emerald springs shore

1080
00:42:06,710 --> 00:42:03,200
ralston romer miles

1081
00:42:09,589 --> 00:42:06,720
chinchilla and dalby now

1082
00:42:10,230 --> 00:42:09,599
queensland being such a huge state that

1083
00:42:13,349 --> 00:42:10,240
covers a

1084
00:42:14,870 --> 00:42:13,359
very large area if you know anybody in

1085
00:42:17,190 --> 00:42:14,880
those areas or you

1086
00:42:18,950 --> 00:42:17,200
are in those areas you might want to

1087
00:42:20,950 --> 00:42:18,960
take a look at the

1088
00:42:22,069 --> 00:42:20,960
notice from australian skeptics i'll add

1089
00:42:23,910 --> 00:42:22,079
again

1090
00:42:25,829 --> 00:42:23,920
the link in this week's show notes or if

1091
00:42:27,829 --> 00:42:25,839
you just google australian skeptics and

1092
00:42:28,710 --> 00:42:27,839
get to the skeptics page you'll you'll

1093
00:42:32,150 --> 00:42:28,720
find

1094
00:42:34,309 --> 00:42:32,160
the the information about the vaxxed bus

1095
00:42:35,910 --> 00:42:34,319
very easily well there you are a little

1096
00:42:38,390 --> 00:42:35,920
bit of a winding road from the bench

1097
00:42:41,589 --> 00:42:38,400
spoon award to anti-vaccination

1098
00:42:43,270 --> 00:42:41,599
throw in some conspiracy theories and

1099
00:42:46,630 --> 00:42:43,280
some interesting issues

1100
00:42:48,950 --> 00:42:46,640
we must all face soon i hope we all have

1101
00:42:51,670 --> 00:42:48,960
to face soon with the uh

1102
00:42:52,950 --> 00:42:51,680
the vaccine once it becomes available

1103
00:42:57,030 --> 00:42:52,960
and

1104
00:42:59,030 --> 00:42:57,040
the vaxxed or vexed bus

1105
00:43:01,030 --> 00:42:59,040
and as ever we'll try to keep you

1106
00:43:15,349 --> 00:43:01,040
updated as best we can

1107
00:43:18,870 --> 00:43:17,589
i'm mick west in my podcast tales from

1108
00:43:20,230 --> 00:43:18,880
the rabbit hole i have extended

1109
00:43:22,150 --> 00:43:20,240
conversations with people who've been

1110
00:43:23,670 --> 00:43:22,160
involved in conspiracy culture

1111
00:43:25,109 --> 00:43:23,680
i do this for a couple of reasons

1112
00:43:25,990 --> 00:43:25,119
firstly because it's really interesting

1113
00:43:27,589 --> 00:43:26,000
these people have great

1114
00:43:29,270 --> 00:43:27,599
stories about how they fell down the

1115
00:43:30,150 --> 00:43:29,280
conspiracy theory rabbit hole what they

1116
00:43:31,750 --> 00:43:30,160
did down there

1117
00:43:33,109 --> 00:43:31,760
and what it was that helped them out

1118
00:43:34,790 --> 00:43:33,119
sometimes i also talk to people who

1119
00:43:36,309 --> 00:43:34,800
investigate conspiracy theories and they

1120
00:43:37,349 --> 00:43:36,319
have equally fascinating stories from

1121
00:43:39,190 --> 00:43:37,359
the other side

1122
00:43:40,630 --> 00:43:39,200
secondly i want to understand how best

1123
00:43:42,230 --> 00:43:40,640
to prevent the spread of conspiracy

1124
00:43:43,829 --> 00:43:42,240
theorism misinformation which is an

1125
00:43:45,829 --> 00:43:43,839
increasing problem in a time when

1126
00:43:47,190 --> 00:43:45,839
alternative media is exploding

1127
00:43:49,030 --> 00:43:47,200
the best way to do this is to

1128
00:43:49,670 --> 00:43:49,040
communicate effectively with the people

1129
00:43:51,510 --> 00:43:49,680
involved

1130
00:43:53,270 --> 00:43:51,520
and the best way to do that is with a

1131
00:43:56,570 --> 00:43:53,280
nice long chat

1132
00:44:06,829 --> 00:43:56,580
check it out tales from the rabbit hole

1133
00:44:06,839 --> 00:44:11,990
tftrh.com

1134
00:44:19,109 --> 00:44:16,069
yeah let's have a random

1135
00:44:19,119 --> 00:44:24,760
with dr paulie

1136
00:44:24,770 --> 00:44:28,150
[Music]

1137
00:44:31,910 --> 00:44:30,069
the journal psychological science

1138
00:44:33,510 --> 00:44:31,920
recently published a paper by pennywick

1139
00:44:34,470 --> 00:44:33,520
at al which sparked my skeptical

1140
00:44:37,030 --> 00:44:34,480
interest

1141
00:44:39,030 --> 00:44:37,040
it was entitled fighting covert 19

1142
00:44:40,870 --> 00:44:39,040
misinformation on social media

1143
00:44:43,270 --> 00:44:40,880
experimental evidence for scalable

1144
00:44:44,950 --> 00:44:43,280
accuracy nudge intervention

1145
00:44:46,870 --> 00:44:44,960
but given the title of course i felt

1146
00:44:48,550 --> 00:44:46,880
obliged to read it

1147
00:44:50,550 --> 00:44:48,560
the authors conducted a relatively

1148
00:44:51,270 --> 00:44:50,560
simple psychological experiment in two

1149
00:44:53,510 --> 00:44:51,280
stages

1150
00:44:54,950 --> 00:44:53,520
they wanted to see whether a small nudge

1151
00:44:57,109 --> 00:44:54,960
reminding people to think about the

1152
00:44:59,190 --> 00:44:57,119
accuracy of what they read

1153
00:45:01,270 --> 00:44:59,200
improve the likelihood of sharing true

1154
00:45:03,349 --> 00:45:01,280
claims and decrease the likelihood of

1155
00:45:05,270 --> 00:45:03,359
sharing false claims

1156
00:45:06,870 --> 00:45:05,280
the premise they claim is when we're

1157
00:45:09,109 --> 00:45:06,880
casually browsing on social media

1158
00:45:11,349 --> 00:45:09,119
websites such as facebook and twitter

1159
00:45:13,190 --> 00:45:11,359
we're more likely to be inattentive and

1160
00:45:13,910 --> 00:45:13,200
perhaps less likely to pay attention to

1161
00:45:17,349 --> 00:45:13,920
things like

1162
00:45:18,950 --> 00:45:17,359
accuracy for those of us who have ever

1163
00:45:22,230 --> 00:45:18,960
been on the internet ever

1164
00:45:24,069 --> 00:45:22,240
this will come as no surprise in stage

1165
00:45:26,150 --> 00:45:24,079
one of their experiment they looked at

1166
00:45:27,270 --> 00:45:26,160
baseline likelihood to share a set of

1167
00:45:29,670 --> 00:45:27,280
true and false

1168
00:45:31,750 --> 00:45:29,680
headlines i the headlines had true or

1169
00:45:33,750 --> 00:45:31,760
false

1170
00:45:35,270 --> 00:45:33,760
they had people assess how accurate they

1171
00:45:37,349 --> 00:45:35,280
thought the claim being made by the

1172
00:45:38,870 --> 00:45:37,359
headlines were

1173
00:45:41,270 --> 00:45:38,880
and whether or not they were likely to

1174
00:45:43,030 --> 00:45:41,280
share it and just to note that all the

1175
00:45:44,230 --> 00:45:43,040
headlines had something to do with cobra

1176
00:45:45,910 --> 00:45:44,240
19.

1177
00:45:48,309 --> 00:45:45,920
the researchers also assessed the

1178
00:45:50,950 --> 00:45:48,319
participants regarding how concerned

1179
00:45:51,910 --> 00:45:50,960
they were about cover 19 in general and

1180
00:45:55,190 --> 00:45:51,920
how often

1181
00:45:57,190 --> 00:45:55,200
they check the news regarding cobra 19.

1182
00:45:59,349 --> 00:45:57,200
they also assess them regarding their

1183
00:46:00,630 --> 00:45:59,359
level of reflective thinking

1184
00:46:02,150 --> 00:46:00,640
whether they were the kind of person

1185
00:46:03,750 --> 00:46:02,160
that goes to the doctor for every little

1186
00:46:05,670 --> 00:46:03,760
thing or the kind of person that avoids

1187
00:46:08,790 --> 00:46:05,680
the doctor altogether

1188
00:46:11,109 --> 00:46:08,800
their level of scientific knowledge and

1189
00:46:12,870 --> 00:46:11,119
their political ideology and it's worth

1190
00:46:14,309 --> 00:46:12,880
noting that this was based in the usa so

1191
00:46:17,109 --> 00:46:14,319
obviously the political ideology

1192
00:46:18,550 --> 00:46:17,119
reflected the political parties there

1193
00:46:20,630 --> 00:46:18,560
the second experiment was pretty much

1194
00:46:21,349 --> 00:46:20,640
the same except they randomized patients

1195
00:46:23,349 --> 00:46:21,359
who received

1196
00:46:25,589 --> 00:46:23,359
a nudge in order to think about the

1197
00:46:26,950 --> 00:46:25,599
accuracy of a claim

1198
00:46:29,829 --> 00:46:26,960
that didn't have anything to do with

1199
00:46:31,510 --> 00:46:29,839
cobra 19 and to not receive a nudge

1200
00:46:33,030 --> 00:46:31,520
the authors conclude that the nudge made

1201
00:46:33,990 --> 00:46:33,040
people more likely to consider the

1202
00:46:36,470 --> 00:46:34,000
accuracy

1203
00:46:37,270 --> 00:46:36,480
of the covert 19 headlines before they

1204
00:46:39,510 --> 00:46:37,280
shared it

1205
00:46:41,190 --> 00:46:39,520
and suggest that social media can easily

1206
00:46:42,230 --> 00:46:41,200
implement this sort of thing in order to

1207
00:46:44,150 --> 00:46:42,240
stimulate people

1208
00:46:45,910 --> 00:46:44,160
into thinking about the accuracy of what

1209
00:46:47,349 --> 00:46:45,920
they're sharing

1210
00:46:49,510 --> 00:46:47,359
look personally i'm a little bit dubious

1211
00:46:51,510 --> 00:46:49,520
that this will work in a sustained way

1212
00:46:54,230 --> 00:46:51,520
but that's not really what i wanted to

1213
00:46:55,990 --> 00:46:54,240
focus on today

1214
00:46:57,910 --> 00:46:56,000
the researchers also looked at a number

1215
00:46:58,950 --> 00:46:57,920
of correlations between those additional

1216
00:47:01,510 --> 00:46:58,960
measures i mentioned

1217
00:47:04,069 --> 00:47:01,520
earlier i whether or not they're likely

1218
00:47:05,670 --> 00:47:04,079
or the doctor or the reflective thinking

1219
00:47:08,390 --> 00:47:05,680
and their ability to work out which

1220
00:47:10,550 --> 00:47:08,400
headline has a true or false claim

1221
00:47:13,109 --> 00:47:10,560
and the likelihood they are then of

1222
00:47:16,230 --> 00:47:13,119
sharing that true or false claim

1223
00:47:18,710 --> 00:47:16,240
headline i'm not going to focus on

1224
00:47:20,549 --> 00:47:18,720
every little result presented because

1225
00:47:21,670 --> 00:47:20,559
honestly i think they milk the data a

1226
00:47:23,670 --> 00:47:21,680
little bit too much

1227
00:47:24,710 --> 00:47:23,680
with lots and lots of correlations but i

1228
00:47:27,349 --> 00:47:24,720
think there are some

1229
00:47:28,950 --> 00:47:27,359
things worth noting reflective thinking

1230
00:47:30,870 --> 00:47:28,960
and science knowledge were positively

1231
00:47:33,349 --> 00:47:30,880
correlated with spotting and sharing

1232
00:47:36,470 --> 00:47:33,359
true claims and negatively correlated

1233
00:47:37,990 --> 00:47:36,480
with sharing false claims so

1234
00:47:39,510 --> 00:47:38,000
what this is trying to say is that

1235
00:47:41,589 --> 00:47:39,520
people who are reflective thinkers

1236
00:47:43,190 --> 00:47:41,599
or have good science knowledge are more

1237
00:47:45,670 --> 00:47:43,200
likely to spot a true claim

1238
00:47:46,390 --> 00:47:45,680
and are also more likely to share them

1239
00:47:48,470 --> 00:47:46,400
and they're

1240
00:47:50,309 --> 00:47:48,480
also more likely to spot a false claim

1241
00:47:51,589 --> 00:47:50,319
and are less likely to share those false

1242
00:47:52,870 --> 00:47:51,599
claims

1243
00:47:55,030 --> 00:47:52,880
yeah look that's probably not that

1244
00:47:56,309 --> 00:47:55,040
surprising i mean it makes sense that

1245
00:47:58,069 --> 00:47:56,319
those who stop and think

1246
00:48:00,069 --> 00:47:58,079
or have good science knowledge to to

1247
00:48:01,670 --> 00:48:00,079
back themselves up

1248
00:48:03,829 --> 00:48:01,680
are going to be more likely to spot the

1249
00:48:06,950 --> 00:48:03,839
accuracy of a particular claim

1250
00:48:08,309 --> 00:48:06,960
however what i found more interesting is

1251
00:48:09,829 --> 00:48:08,319
that there's actually a stronger

1252
00:48:10,710 --> 00:48:09,839
correlation between the reflective

1253
00:48:14,150 --> 00:48:10,720
thinking

1254
00:48:16,950 --> 00:48:14,160
and spotting and sharing true claims

1255
00:48:18,710 --> 00:48:16,960
than there was with science knowledge it

1256
00:48:20,870 --> 00:48:18,720
seems to me that skeptics have been

1257
00:48:22,549 --> 00:48:20,880
right along critical thinking is a

1258
00:48:23,750 --> 00:48:22,559
better tool at deciphering true from

1259
00:48:26,549 --> 00:48:23,760
false claims

1260
00:48:27,750 --> 00:48:26,559
more so than science knowledge alone i

1261
00:48:30,069 --> 00:48:27,760
wondered if we could focus

1262
00:48:31,190 --> 00:48:30,079
more on this as an intervention critical

1263
00:48:32,950 --> 00:48:31,200
thinking

1264
00:48:34,950 --> 00:48:32,960
and how we could get the general public

1265
00:48:36,870 --> 00:48:34,960
to have these attributes i mean

1266
00:48:38,790 --> 00:48:36,880
that's what all of us would like the

1267
00:48:40,150 --> 00:48:38,800
whole world to be critical thinkers

1268
00:48:41,829 --> 00:48:40,160
right

1269
00:48:43,349 --> 00:48:41,839
i know we teach a lot of science content

1270
00:48:46,390 --> 00:48:43,359
to kids at schools

1271
00:48:48,870 --> 00:48:46,400
and you know not every kid likes science

1272
00:48:50,470 --> 00:48:48,880
but what i have heard is that there's

1273
00:48:51,430 --> 00:48:50,480
not much critical thinking and that

1274
00:48:54,630 --> 00:48:51,440
that's

1275
00:48:55,270 --> 00:48:54,640
missing from the curriculum luckily my

1276
00:48:56,950 --> 00:48:55,280
colleague

1277
00:48:58,790 --> 00:48:56,960
at the institute for evidence-based

1278
00:49:00,790 --> 00:48:58,800
healthcare bond university

1279
00:49:02,710 --> 00:49:00,800
professor tammy hoffman is trying to

1280
00:49:05,190 --> 00:49:02,720
solve this very problem

1281
00:49:06,549 --> 00:49:05,200
she's trying to teach high school kids

1282
00:49:08,060 --> 00:49:06,559
how to evaluate claims

1283
00:49:13,109 --> 00:49:08,070
and how to think critically

1284
00:49:16,710 --> 00:49:15,510
so tammy i've been telling the skeptic's

1285
00:49:17,670 --> 00:49:16,720
own listeners that you're currently

1286
00:49:19,670 --> 00:49:17,680
running a study

1287
00:49:21,510 --> 00:49:19,680
with high school kids teaching them how

1288
00:49:23,109 --> 00:49:21,520
to do critical thinking

1289
00:49:25,430 --> 00:49:23,119
um what prompted you to start this

1290
00:49:27,270 --> 00:49:25,440
project uh well two things first of all

1291
00:49:29,270 --> 00:49:27,280
my background is in helping people to

1292
00:49:30,309 --> 00:49:29,280
make informed health decisions so when

1293
00:49:33,190 --> 00:49:30,319
they're going to the doctor

1294
00:49:34,630 --> 00:49:33,200
or working out whether a treatment is

1295
00:49:36,069 --> 00:49:34,640
right for them and whether the benefits

1296
00:49:37,910 --> 00:49:36,079
outweigh the harms

1297
00:49:39,829 --> 00:49:37,920
and the more research that we did with

1298
00:49:41,109 --> 00:49:39,839
patients we realized that there's this

1299
00:49:43,670 --> 00:49:41,119
fundamental

1300
00:49:45,270 --> 00:49:43,680
lack of critical thinking about health

1301
00:49:47,109 --> 00:49:45,280
and assuming that everything a doctor

1302
00:49:48,549 --> 00:49:47,119
says is correct and everything they read

1303
00:49:51,270 --> 00:49:48,559
and health information on the internet

1304
00:49:52,230 --> 00:49:51,280
is correct um and so we started thinking

1305
00:49:54,950 --> 00:49:52,240
how do we

1306
00:49:57,030 --> 00:49:54,960
instill in people this sort of i guess

1307
00:49:57,349 --> 00:49:57,040
skepticism but critical thinking early

1308
00:50:00,710 --> 00:49:57,359
on

1309
00:50:02,230 --> 00:50:00,720
so that people are as they become adults

1310
00:50:03,430 --> 00:50:02,240
they're sort of already approaching

1311
00:50:06,069 --> 00:50:03,440
everything with uh

1312
00:50:07,190 --> 00:50:06,079
but why or is that really true sort of

1313
00:50:09,829 --> 00:50:07,200
frame

1314
00:50:10,470 --> 00:50:09,839
so at the same time some colleagues in

1315
00:50:13,510 --> 00:50:10,480
norway

1316
00:50:15,670 --> 00:50:13,520
and the uk we're working on a project

1317
00:50:17,829 --> 00:50:15,680
teaching primary school children to be

1318
00:50:19,430 --> 00:50:17,839
able to just get the basics of

1319
00:50:21,510 --> 00:50:19,440
thinking about whether a health claim

1320
00:50:25,030 --> 00:50:21,520
might be true or not

1321
00:50:27,829 --> 00:50:25,040
and so in conjunction with

1322
00:50:29,349 --> 00:50:27,839
um leila kuzak who's my phd student so

1323
00:50:30,710 --> 00:50:29,359
we're doing some work here in australia

1324
00:50:32,630 --> 00:50:30,720
thinking we're going to tackle high

1325
00:50:35,109 --> 00:50:32,640
school students for the first time and

1326
00:50:37,030 --> 00:50:35,119
start to just talk to them about

1327
00:50:39,190 --> 00:50:37,040
so everything on the internet everything

1328
00:50:40,069 --> 00:50:39,200
on health products everything on social

1329
00:50:42,069 --> 00:50:40,079
media

1330
00:50:43,589 --> 00:50:42,079
that claim makes a claim about health

1331
00:50:45,430 --> 00:50:43,599
that you actually need to stop and think

1332
00:50:46,870 --> 00:50:45,440
hang on what's the research behind that

1333
00:50:48,549 --> 00:50:46,880
claim and is it true

1334
00:50:50,150 --> 00:50:48,559
yeah and that that that would be

1335
00:50:51,270 --> 00:50:50,160
fantastic um you know

1336
00:50:53,349 --> 00:50:51,280
especially if we could get a whole

1337
00:50:55,510 --> 00:50:53,359
generation of skeptics

1338
00:50:58,069 --> 00:50:55,520
out there and that it indoctrinated him

1339
00:50:59,829 --> 00:50:58,079
into into the curriculum

1340
00:51:01,109 --> 00:50:59,839
um i'm actually really surprised that

1341
00:51:03,670 --> 00:51:01,119
this sort of thing isn't

1342
00:51:05,109 --> 00:51:03,680
in the curriculum already so you

1343
00:51:07,829 --> 00:51:05,119
mentioned it has been done before

1344
00:51:09,030 --> 00:51:07,839
in overseas in in primary school kids is

1345
00:51:10,630 --> 00:51:09,040
this not happening already

1346
00:51:12,710 --> 00:51:10,640
yeah so we were surprised too that was

1347
00:51:14,870 --> 00:51:12,720
one of the things we looked at is

1348
00:51:16,309 --> 00:51:14,880
we analyzed the australian curriculum

1349
00:51:17,990 --> 00:51:16,319
and a lot of teachers that we

1350
00:51:20,390 --> 00:51:18,000
interviewed also said no that in terms

1351
00:51:22,950 --> 00:51:20,400
of critical thinking it's just

1352
00:51:25,349 --> 00:51:22,960
it's not really covered much um in the

1353
00:51:27,750 --> 00:51:25,359
curriculum and a lot of teachers

1354
00:51:29,589 --> 00:51:27,760
um were hoping that you know would be

1355
00:51:31,430 --> 00:51:29,599
really wanting resources that would help

1356
00:51:34,390 --> 00:51:31,440
them sort of package up how to teach

1357
00:51:36,549 --> 00:51:34,400
um critical thinking so there's been a

1358
00:51:37,670 --> 00:51:36,559
large randomized control trial done in

1359
00:51:39,430 --> 00:51:37,680
uganda

1360
00:51:40,950 --> 00:51:39,440
of a few thousand primary school

1361
00:51:42,390 --> 00:51:40,960
children grade five

1362
00:51:44,309 --> 00:51:42,400
and they looked at could the teachers

1363
00:51:47,030 --> 00:51:44,319
there over a whole semester um

1364
00:51:48,950 --> 00:51:47,040
teach them some basics about health

1365
00:51:49,990 --> 00:51:48,960
claims and thinking about their accuracy

1366
00:51:51,510 --> 00:51:50,000
and that showed a significant

1367
00:51:53,430 --> 00:51:51,520
effect it was published in the lancet a

1368
00:51:55,270 --> 00:51:53,440
few years ago and they've just done a

1369
00:51:57,349 --> 00:51:55,280
release their 12-month follow-up results

1370
00:51:59,270 --> 00:51:57,359
and they retained that

1371
00:52:01,430 --> 00:51:59,280
difference so that's sort of the first

1372
00:52:03,030 --> 00:52:01,440
big study there's now quite a lot of

1373
00:52:05,190 --> 00:52:03,040
studies around the world that are trying

1374
00:52:06,950 --> 00:52:05,200
to implement translate those materials

1375
00:52:08,549 --> 00:52:06,960
into their respective languages

1376
00:52:10,549 --> 00:52:08,559
and that's run by something called the

1377
00:52:11,589 --> 00:52:10,559
informed health choices group based in

1378
00:52:13,670 --> 00:52:11,599
norway

1379
00:52:15,190 --> 00:52:13,680
cool but no one as of yet has done high

1380
00:52:16,630 --> 00:52:15,200
school students yeah and we thought

1381
00:52:17,990 --> 00:52:16,640
that's the time when teenagers are

1382
00:52:20,069 --> 00:52:18,000
really starting to have a say

1383
00:52:21,349 --> 00:52:20,079
with may not be you know medical

1384
00:52:23,349 --> 00:52:21,359
decisions and you know

1385
00:52:26,230 --> 00:52:23,359
they're usually not on medications or

1386
00:52:28,390 --> 00:52:26,240
having big health decisions but they are

1387
00:52:30,549 --> 00:52:28,400
getting lots of exposure to things like

1388
00:52:31,270 --> 00:52:30,559
acne treatments and shampoo that makes

1389
00:52:33,990 --> 00:52:31,280
your hair

1390
00:52:34,950 --> 00:52:34,000
glossier and fuller and you know sports

1391
00:52:37,430 --> 00:52:34,960
drinks and

1392
00:52:39,190 --> 00:52:37,440
um athletic shoes and all of these

1393
00:52:41,030 --> 00:52:39,200
products that are making health claims

1394
00:52:43,750 --> 00:52:41,040
and they're you know on social media

1395
00:52:45,349 --> 00:52:43,760
and seeing instagram and facebook ads

1396
00:52:47,349 --> 00:52:45,359
and twitter ads promoting all this stuff

1397
00:52:49,430 --> 00:52:47,359
using the claim language so

1398
00:52:50,470 --> 00:52:49,440
it's actually an ideal time we think to

1399
00:52:53,109 --> 00:52:50,480
start

1400
00:52:54,549 --> 00:52:53,119
um teenagers just critically thinking

1401
00:52:57,190 --> 00:52:54,559
stopping and thinking hang on

1402
00:52:59,349 --> 00:52:57,200
is this claim um you know is there

1403
00:53:01,990 --> 00:52:59,359
research backing up this claim

1404
00:53:03,430 --> 00:53:02,000
so and and tammy i'm really interested

1405
00:53:05,510 --> 00:53:03,440
to know and i guess everyone

1406
00:53:07,430 --> 00:53:05,520
um you know listening to the podcast you

1407
00:53:08,069 --> 00:53:07,440
know keen to know what is it that you're

1408
00:53:09,990 --> 00:53:08,079
actually

1409
00:53:11,910 --> 00:53:10,000
doing with with the kids so what we've

1410
00:53:14,870 --> 00:53:11,920
developed so we did a few

1411
00:53:16,390 --> 00:53:14,880
um precursor studies so some qualitative

1412
00:53:18,069 --> 00:53:16,400
work with australian teenagers and a

1413
00:53:18,870 --> 00:53:18,079
systematic review of all the existing

1414
00:53:20,790 --> 00:53:18,880
interventions

1415
00:53:23,990 --> 00:53:20,800
and confirmed that there are none in

1416
00:53:25,910 --> 00:53:24,000
high schoolers and we took some of the

1417
00:53:27,270 --> 00:53:25,920
relevant bits from existing studies and

1418
00:53:29,349 --> 00:53:27,280
we've developed a four

1419
00:53:31,030 --> 00:53:29,359
module course called health hack and

1420
00:53:33,750 --> 00:53:31,040
health hack obviously

1421
00:53:35,910 --> 00:53:33,760
but this is h a double c and it stands

1422
00:53:38,230 --> 00:53:35,920
for how to assess claims critically

1423
00:53:40,470 --> 00:53:38,240
so it's four modules each module is

1424
00:53:42,790 --> 00:53:40,480
meant to be about the length of one

1425
00:53:44,710 --> 00:53:42,800
classroom lessons so that was 50 minutes

1426
00:53:46,390 --> 00:53:44,720
and it's designed for teachers to teach

1427
00:53:48,230 --> 00:53:46,400
it so it's not a workshop that we're

1428
00:53:49,829 --> 00:53:48,240
going to do we did during the piloting

1429
00:53:52,470 --> 00:53:49,839
but you know in terms of

1430
00:53:53,109 --> 00:53:52,480
dissemination and scalability it's aimed

1431
00:53:55,750 --> 00:53:53,119
at something

1432
00:53:57,430 --> 00:53:55,760
the teachers can develop and can deliver

1433
00:53:59,270 --> 00:53:57,440
so there's a teacher's guide and all the

1434
00:54:02,390 --> 00:53:59,280
powerpoint slides and a teacher's manual

1435
00:54:03,990 --> 00:54:02,400
there's a student activity booklet

1436
00:54:05,910 --> 00:54:04,000
and it takes them through all the

1437
00:54:07,750 --> 00:54:05,920
activities hope to learn and hopefully

1438
00:54:10,470 --> 00:54:07,760
what's a fun and engaging way

1439
00:54:12,390 --> 00:54:10,480
so that teenagers can sort of finish

1440
00:54:14,549 --> 00:54:12,400
these four lessons and go huh the next

1441
00:54:15,030 --> 00:54:14,559
time i look at a claim on a product or

1442
00:54:16,790 --> 00:54:15,040
on

1443
00:54:18,390 --> 00:54:16,800
an ad or in a magazine that they

1444
00:54:19,750 --> 00:54:18,400
actually stop and think

1445
00:54:21,430 --> 00:54:19,760
is it for real what's the research

1446
00:54:23,030 --> 00:54:21,440
behind it what type of research should i

1447
00:54:24,950 --> 00:54:23,040
believe this

1448
00:54:27,190 --> 00:54:24,960
and it can be taught in any subject

1449
00:54:29,190 --> 00:54:27,200
we've aimed it at years seven to nine

1450
00:54:31,030 --> 00:54:29,200
but most schools that are taking part

1451
00:54:33,030 --> 00:54:31,040
seem to be situating it within the

1452
00:54:35,589 --> 00:54:33,040
science curricula but it could also go

1453
00:54:36,950 --> 00:54:35,599
in you know health and pe or some

1454
00:54:39,670 --> 00:54:36,960
schools have digital

1455
00:54:40,630 --> 00:54:39,680
media digital subjects but it mostly

1456
00:54:41,910 --> 00:54:40,640
seems to

1457
00:54:44,069 --> 00:54:41,920
lend itself to sitting within the

1458
00:54:45,990 --> 00:54:44,079
science curriculum great

1459
00:54:47,190 --> 00:54:46,000
um and i'm sure we've got lots of

1460
00:54:49,030 --> 00:54:47,200
listeners

1461
00:54:50,390 --> 00:54:49,040
that are high school teachers that are

1462
00:54:53,829 --> 00:54:50,400
listening in and wondering

1463
00:54:55,510 --> 00:54:53,839
oh gosh how can i join this study um

1464
00:54:57,270 --> 00:54:55,520
is there any way that people can contact

1465
00:54:59,510 --> 00:54:57,280
you if they're interested absolutely yep

1466
00:55:01,910 --> 00:54:59,520
so we've got um ethical approval to do

1467
00:55:04,069 --> 00:55:01,920
the study in any australian

1468
00:55:06,309 --> 00:55:04,079
high school a private high school we

1469
00:55:09,430 --> 00:55:06,319
have approval to do it in um

1470
00:55:11,589 --> 00:55:09,440
victorian state high schools um

1471
00:55:13,190 --> 00:55:11,599
paused for the moment walk the covert

1472
00:55:14,710 --> 00:55:13,200
outbreak down there but hopefully early

1473
00:55:16,230 --> 00:55:14,720
next year we can resume that but

1474
00:55:18,789 --> 00:55:16,240
certainly right now we're

1475
00:55:21,109 --> 00:55:18,799
actively recruiting for any high schools

1476
00:55:23,510 --> 00:55:21,119
independent high schools in australia

1477
00:55:24,150 --> 00:55:23,520
and um if someone if you want to email

1478
00:55:27,270 --> 00:55:24,160
me

1479
00:55:30,390 --> 00:55:27,280
it's t hoffman h o double f m a double n

1480
00:55:32,069 --> 00:55:30,400
at bond.edu.au i can

1481
00:55:34,390 --> 00:55:32,079
send all the details needed and we

1482
00:55:36,230 --> 00:55:34,400
provide all the resources needed and

1483
00:55:37,670 --> 00:55:36,240
yep help teachers to be able to deliver

1484
00:55:39,829 --> 00:55:37,680
this some are delivering it

1485
00:55:41,109 --> 00:55:39,839
sort of over four lessons in one week

1486
00:55:42,950 --> 00:55:41,119
other schools are saying we're going to

1487
00:55:44,309 --> 00:55:42,960
do it as a half day activity at the end

1488
00:55:45,589 --> 00:55:44,319
of term when all the assessment's

1489
00:55:47,270 --> 00:55:45,599
finished and there's you know

1490
00:55:49,030 --> 00:55:47,280
not much else to fill in the day rather

1491
00:55:50,630 --> 00:55:49,040
than watching a movie or something we'll

1492
00:55:51,750 --> 00:55:50,640
do a half day workshop on critical

1493
00:55:53,589 --> 00:55:51,760
thinking

1494
00:55:55,030 --> 00:55:53,599
which we think is fantastic so any

1495
00:55:55,750 --> 00:55:55,040
schools that are interested please get

1496
00:55:57,990 --> 00:55:55,760
in touch

1497
00:56:03,230 --> 00:55:58,000
perfect thanks so much tammy and good

1498
00:56:16,549 --> 00:56:03,240
luck with it thank you

1499
00:56:21,270 --> 00:56:18,230
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1500
00:56:22,069 --> 00:56:21,280
zone now i'd like to announce our new

1501
00:56:24,390 --> 00:56:22,079
reporter

1502
00:56:25,589 --> 00:56:24,400
jennifer hathawn now jennifer i've known

1503
00:56:27,910 --> 00:56:25,599
for many years

1504
00:56:28,789 --> 00:56:27,920
well on and off i originally met

1505
00:56:32,150 --> 00:56:28,799
jennifer

1506
00:56:34,789 --> 00:56:32,160
at dragoncon over 10 years ago

1507
00:56:35,589 --> 00:56:34,799
and we sort of didn't really keep in

1508
00:56:37,349 --> 00:56:35,599
touch

1509
00:56:39,109 --> 00:56:37,359
because there was a big gap where i

1510
00:56:41,670 --> 00:56:39,119
wasn't going to dragoncon

1511
00:56:43,589 --> 00:56:41,680
and when i went back to dragoncon just

1512
00:56:46,870 --> 00:56:43,599
last year there she was

1513
00:56:47,750 --> 00:56:46,880
and uh i did an interview with her on

1514
00:56:49,349 --> 00:56:47,760
the spot

1515
00:56:52,390 --> 00:56:49,359
and her new segment is going to be

1516
00:56:54,470 --> 00:56:52,400
called here is my two cents worth

1517
00:56:55,910 --> 00:56:54,480
that will be coming uh up soon reports

1518
00:56:58,390 --> 00:56:55,920
from jennifer will be coming up soon but

1519
00:57:00,470 --> 00:56:58,400
just getting back to her bio

1520
00:57:02,870 --> 00:57:00,480
jennifer is a skeptic and science

1521
00:57:05,190 --> 00:57:02,880
enthusiast from the united states

1522
00:57:06,549 --> 00:57:05,200
her lifelong passion for scientific

1523
00:57:09,990 --> 00:57:06,559
knowledge led her to

1524
00:57:12,549 --> 00:57:10,000
pursue a career in environmental science

1525
00:57:13,430 --> 00:57:12,559
she earned her master's in geography

1526
00:57:15,910 --> 00:57:13,440
from

1527
00:57:18,390 --> 00:57:15,920
louisiana state university and a

1528
00:57:21,030 --> 00:57:18,400
bachelor of science in biology from

1529
00:57:21,589 --> 00:57:21,040
university of south alabama and it goes

1530
00:57:24,390 --> 00:57:21,599
on her

1531
00:57:26,710 --> 00:57:24,400
interest in skepticism blossomed along

1532
00:57:29,990 --> 00:57:26,720
with her love of science and she became

1533
00:57:33,109 --> 00:57:30,000
involved with the skeptics at dragoncon

1534
00:57:35,430 --> 00:57:33,119
in 2007 as a fan

1535
00:57:36,950 --> 00:57:35,440
and i think jennifer told me that she

1536
00:57:39,670 --> 00:57:36,960
hasn't missed a dragon con

1537
00:57:41,589 --> 00:57:39,680
since welcome jennifer to the show and

1538
00:57:43,349 --> 00:57:41,599
we look forward to your reports

1539
00:57:45,349 --> 00:57:43,359
and speaking of jennifer of course you

1540
00:57:47,430 --> 00:57:45,359
would have heard jennifer earlier

1541
00:57:49,030 --> 00:57:47,440
in the show during the solar flare

1542
00:57:51,829 --> 00:57:49,040
moonshot segment

1543
00:57:53,670 --> 00:57:51,839
and a big thank you to jennifer for

1544
00:57:56,789 --> 00:57:53,680
providing her voice

1545
00:58:00,069 --> 00:57:56,799
and brian dunning and ben radford

1546
00:58:01,510 --> 00:58:00,079
what a crew a big shout out to maynard i

1547
00:58:04,710 --> 00:58:01,520
helped produce

1548
00:58:07,990 --> 00:58:04,720
maynard's live

1549
00:58:10,870 --> 00:58:08,000
mad club show over the last few days

1550
00:58:12,470 --> 00:58:10,880
if you go to maynard.com.eu you can see

1551
00:58:14,870 --> 00:58:12,480
that craziness

1552
00:58:16,789 --> 00:58:14,880
and before we go a big thank you as ever

1553
00:58:18,870 --> 00:58:16,799
to those wonderful people who help

1554
00:58:22,230 --> 00:58:18,880
support the skeptic zone via patreon or

1555
00:58:24,710 --> 00:58:22,240
paypal at skepticzone.tv

1556
00:58:26,870 --> 00:58:24,720
thank you people you can sit back and

1557
00:58:28,710 --> 00:58:26,880
have an extra cup of tea

1558
00:58:30,470 --> 00:58:28,720
knowing that it's your contribution that

1559
00:58:32,549 --> 00:58:30,480
means everybody else

1560
00:58:33,990 --> 00:58:32,559
can enjoy the show and if you're

1561
00:58:36,309 --> 00:58:34,000
everybody else

1562
00:58:37,430 --> 00:58:36,319
maybe you can consider supporting the

1563
00:58:39,750 --> 00:58:37,440
show as well

1564
00:58:41,030 --> 00:58:39,760
that would be much appreciated but for

1565
00:58:43,030 --> 00:58:41,040
this week

1566
00:58:49,270 --> 00:58:43,040
this is richard saunders signing off

1567
00:58:52,549 --> 00:58:51,030
you've been listening to the skeptic

1568
00:58:55,710 --> 00:58:52,559
zone podcast

1569
00:58:57,109 --> 00:58:55,720
please visit our website at

1570
00:59:00,150 --> 00:58:57,119
www.skepticzone.tv

1571
00:59:02,150 --> 00:59:00,160
for show notes contacts and to access

1572
00:59:05,670 --> 00:59:02,160
the back catalog of episodes

1573
00:59:07,750 --> 00:59:05,680
going back to 2008 you can follow the

1574
00:59:11,190 --> 00:59:07,760
skeptic zone podcast on twitter

1575
00:59:14,710 --> 00:59:11,200
at skepticzone visit our facebook page

1576
00:59:16,150 --> 00:59:14,720
or leave a review on itunes you can also

1577
00:59:19,349 --> 00:59:16,160
support the skeptic zone

1578
00:59:20,150 --> 00:59:19,359
via patreon or paypal the skeptic zone

1579
00:59:23,030 --> 00:59:20,160
podcast

1580
00:59:24,789 --> 00:59:23,040
is an independent production the views

1581
00:59:25,270 --> 00:59:24,799
and opinions expressed on the skeptic

1582
00:59:27,270 --> 00:59:25,280
zone

1583
00:59:28,470 --> 00:59:27,280
are not necessarily those of australian